Concern Or Control? A Woman’s Shit Test

Several women I have dated over the past few months have expressed their concern regarding my safety when I ride my motorcycle. I’ll fully admit that motorcycling is a dangerous endeavor. Before I took the Red Pill, I thought that the women were offering an expression of affection, fondness, and genuine caring. It’s not. It’s a massive shit test and failing is doom to the hapless guy.

Here is how the shit test is artfully constructed.

1. A woman gets all tingly because the man has a risky enthusiasm. For me, it’s motorcycling but any risky enthusiasm applies. Women are attracted to men who take risks. It’s alpha.

2. The woman realizes that the risky enthusiasm might result in injury or death to the man she finds so attractive. One might think this presents a dilemma. But no, it’s an opportunity for her.

3. She expresses her concern with the risky enthusiasm and starts in with the “you really shouldn’t do that” nagging. She seems so genuine and concerned. Behold, the shit test!

What, you missed it?

It’s a shit test because the woman wants to know if the man can stand up to the nagging. It’s a particularly insidious test because she’s using concern as camouflage for control. It’s also insidious because there is just enough truth to the concern for it to seem a compelling request. A blue pill man will fail the test because he fell for the concern element – borne from a woman’s nurturing and caring characteristics – and completely ignored the control element. I pity the fool.

So the blue pill man cuts back (or completely eliminates) that risky enthusiasm to appease the woman. Perhaps they are living together or even married at this point. Maybe they are just dating. Regardless, it’s all about her needs now. Blue pill men have rationalization hamsters, too.

Suddenly, the woman ends the relationship. She can’t explain exactly why. She’s just “unhappy” with him. The blue pill man is devastated. He was so loving, so attentive. He even sacrificed his beloved and risky enthusiasm on the altar of her happiness. It was all for naught because he failed the shit test and the woman lost respect for him.

Should this unhappy scenario result in divorce, the clever ex-wife will seek just enough monetary extortion so that the ex-husband can’t afford to re-start risky enthusiasm anymore, reducing his potential attractiveness. This will be done with the ForTheChildren™ rationalization on her part when she’s really just trying to increase his barriers to post-marriage nookie.

The take away advice for all men, even the Red Pill variety, is to be extremely cautious regarding a woman’s “concern”. Some of might be indeed genuine but 80% of it is the shit test of control.

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  1. #1 by dogsquat on September 16, 2011 - 4:27 PM

    I think a good way for a guy to frame this in a marriage/LTR is to ask:

    Would carrying out her proposal/giving in to her concern bring me joy?

    If not – it’s a shit test.

    I don’t know any guys who gave up their bikes for women who are happy about it.

    The flip side:

    I had a girl once propose to me that I cut down on my range time (expensive) and put the money in a kitty so we could go somewhere nice on a vacation. She offered to sacrifice similarly.

    We had an great time (What is it about hotel sex that is so awesome?) and I don’t regret it at all. We both gave up something temporarily to do something cool together. That strengthened the relationship.

    Even though it was her idea, I decided I want to go on this vacation with her and that I’d enjoy the experience.

    That wasn’t a shit test.

    I’ll admit, though – it took me a little bit to realize that at first.

    Guys – it’s okay to temporize. If you’re not sure if you’re being shit tested, just say,”I’ll think about it.” If you’re passing most of the tests, and the relationship is healthy, you can take a little time and think things through.

    • #2 by lifeinlonglegs on September 17, 2011 - 7:37 PM

      Nope. You are way off in left field on this one. This one is genuine concern. No matter how ‘alpha’ you are, we actually think you are stupid if you risk YOUR neck and future for some cheap thrills past a certain age. [translation: you are so selfish you would risk the stability of your inherent role as a provider for our potential family with you = MAJOR DLV]

      Risk is sexy. Immaturity? Selfishness? …not so sexy.

      We DO want you to shit test our nagging…but trust me when I say that many women WON’T EVER DATE someone who owns a motor cycle, a quad, etc. etc. and we’re smart for doing so. We’d trade in an alpha moron for a beta provider with good sense in this case.

      You don’t do anything to give us tingles if your dead rotting corpse is being scraped off the highway.

      • #3 by just visiting on September 17, 2011 - 8:39 PM

        You’re making the same mistake I made initially. You’re looking at it from the perspective of a wife or a future wife. There are consequences that affect more than just the man.( Like widowhood and children growing up fatherless.) Not to mention the sorrow of losing someone that you love That isn’t the case here, so while I think that there is actual concern, there’s other things in play.

        If you plan on marrying or dating an alpha, you’d better be very clear that you can’t get around risk taking behaviours. Even when you’re married. If the only thing you have to worry about is a motorcycle, consider yourself lucky.

      • #4 by theprivateman on September 18, 2011 - 11:15 AM

        We’d trade in an alpha moron for a beta provider with good sense in this case.

        You don’t do anything to give us tingles if your dead rotting corpse is being scraped off the highway.

        But still you’d secretly long for the motorcycle-riding alpha hoping to be ravished and dominated. This is an actions over words thing.

      • #5 by Brian on September 19, 2011 - 9:11 AM

        Not dating a guy that does things like riding a motorcycle is perfectly fine, and would show a degree of logic that would be lost on the type of woman that Privateman is talking about.

        This is just another example of the stereotype of a woman marrying a man, and then trying to change him so that he eventually stops doing all the things she found attractive in the first place.

        Reasonable requests would be things like asking the guy to wear better gear when he rides, or prodding him to do the occasional sport bike class to keep his skills up. If he’s prone to drink and ride, I wouldn’t fault a woman at all for trying to get him to stop mixing those.

        I’ve been riding for 15 years. I’ve been to nearly ever state and province in North America by motorcycle. If a woman I was with ever pushed me to stop riding entirely, we’d be over before she even finished getting the sentence out.

        BTW, the best response I’ve heard from a friends wife about riding was that she’d never get on the back of it until the kids were out of college. “You never put the President and Vice President on the same plane” is her justification.

      • #6 by Aaron on February 29, 2012 - 2:47 AM

        You suck. Typicall bullshit woman response.

    • #7 by dogsquat on September 17, 2011 - 9:14 PM

      Lifelonglegs, if you start dating a guy who rides, and later demand he quit, you’re shit testing him.

      The only exception I can think of is when kids come along, and then I think a smart guy puts the bike up until the kids are fairly self-sufficient – without the wife saying a word about it. Don’t give her the opportunity to shit test, and then she’ll be happier.

      Or, just don’t get involved at all with a guy who rides – that’s perfectly fair.

      Guys who may be reading:

      Take my above advice with a grain of salt. I’m a paramedic, and I sold both my bikes shortly after I used a snow shovel to put human tissue into a body bag.

      Wear a helmet, boots, and leathers. Please, please be an organ donor, too. You will give many gifts of joy and hope the next time some soccer mom doesn’t bother to check her mirrors and blind spot when switching lanes.

      • #8 by theprivateman on September 18, 2011 - 11:20 AM

        Wear a helmet, boots, and leathers. Please, please be an organ donor, too. You will give many gifts of joy and hope the next time some soccer mom doesn’t bother to check her mirrors and blind spot when switching lanes.

        When I ride, I look like Robocop. The armored gloves are particularly intimidating.

        For the record, I’ve had my bike for about 7 and a half years and now have 108K miles on it.

  2. #9 by Richard on September 16, 2011 - 4:37 PM

    I have shit tests of my own that I perform on women – want to hear one?

    No – too bad.

    I take something I am enthused about, and tell her I plan to buy a high-priced item in that area (for me, a piano – for you – perhaps a motor cycle). Make sure the item sounds really expensive – an item that if you were to actually purchase it, would make you live paycheck to paycheck…

    If the woman protests or raises a stink – she fails.
    If she supports your decision – she passes.

    Why?

    If she protests you spending YOUR money on things that YOU want – it means she is already spending your money in her mind – that is, she believes it is already her money – and is telling you what to do with it.

    Whattya think?

    • #10 by dogsquat on September 16, 2011 - 5:18 PM

      I dunno, Richard…

      I think context is very important in your example, as well as how she “protests”.

      If you pull it on a woman who has five Louie Vitton purses and wears exclusively Tommy Chu shoes (exaggerated, but you get what I’m saying), and she screams,”But what about meeeee!!!?!?!?!” I think you’re spot on, there.

      Now, a woman who is saving for her own retirement and her future kids’ college says something like,”Honey, what if you lose your job tomorrow? Why don’t you start putting away $300 per paycheck and buy the piano when you’ve got a little more financial wiggle room? Also, I researched these other pianos that are of good quality but less expensive – take a look and see if you like one of them.”

      Well, I think the second gal is smart and worth listening to. In my opinion, that’s wise advice from a “wife-type”, not a female ego run amok.

      • #11 by Jennifer on September 16, 2011 - 9:07 PM

        Well-said, Dog. It is possible a woman’s truly worried about a motorcycle (it’s all due to our nature-build as potential mothers: we’re wary of danger). But if she nags, it’s a no-go; even if she’s genuinely worried, caving to nagging is a bad move. Women need to know that’s not how you get a guy to listen to and regard your feelings.

      • #12 by lifeinlonglegs on September 17, 2011 - 7:38 PM

        Exactly.

  3. #13 by just visiting on September 16, 2011 - 4:50 PM

    It’s not always a shit test. My ex was an amature race car driver. He was pretty good at it, but after a few years and a few close calls, we agreed that I’d stay away from the tracks.

  4. #14 by Aurini on September 16, 2011 - 4:59 PM

    Heh, my mother did this to my dad – I still remember that lonely bike, collecting leaves in the backyard. They divorced about 5- to 10 years later.

    The important thing to remember is that women don’t know they’re doing this. As far as they can tell, there’s nothing but honest concern in their mind, and the ensuing dissapointment when you listen to them is completely confusing.

    That’s dames, for ya’.

    • #15 by johnnymilfquest on September 18, 2011 - 2:21 PM

      ^^ This.

  5. #16 by Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life on September 16, 2011 - 5:16 PM

    Perfectly on point Private Man.

  6. #17 by wingman on September 16, 2011 - 7:27 PM

    “Oh honey, you shouldn’t worry, I’ve just signed up to the Evel Knievel school of motorbike safety, and they don’t let you jump Volkswagens ’til you’re fully certified”.

  7. #18 by just visiting on September 17, 2011 - 1:11 AM

    Damn. I can’t believe I missed it. (Too many years spent married). Private man, you’re instincts are right that it’s about control, but there’s another element to it. It’s the nature of the relationships that you have with these women. Nurturing is to women what white knighting is to men. We learn the hard way that it’s best done only for those who belong to us. Or on rare occassions for those who we want to belong to us. (Usually with mixed results.)

    In a casual relationship where you are not exclusive, but a woman has feelings for the man,she may not feel on steady enough ground to voice this. Voicing her concern over the motorcycle allows her to do that. It’s a form of testing, but not really about the motorcycle. She’s testing you about how receptive you are to her nuturing. It’s also a form of emotional preening. (I care more about you than those other girls.) It’s a female competitive thing. (Though, y’know she might actually have concerns too.)

    • #19 by theprivateman on September 17, 2011 - 9:30 AM

      Nurturing is to women what white knighting is to men.

      Very perceptive, I had not thought of this. It does beg the question, is white-knighting a learned or instinctual behavior?

      We learn the hard way that it’s best done only for those who belong to us.

      Be careful there because men don’t belong to women. Hell, children don’t even belong to women once past nursing age.

      Voicing her concern over the motorcycle allows her to do that. It’s a form of testing, but not really about the motorcycle. She’s testing you about how receptive you are to her nurturing.

      Another excellent point.

      • #20 by just visiting on September 20, 2011 - 3:15 PM

        Be careful there because men don’t belong to women. Hell children don’t even belong to women once past nursing age.

        I’ve given this some thought. It’s a strong belief in the manosphere, but it’s one that ultimately can only be applied to a subset of people. Communism doesn’t work. Human motivation requires a sense of ownership to get the best out of them. A person is motivated to protect, nurture, put resources, time and money into something that belongs to them. They might dance monkey dance for a short period of time in the pursuit of ownership, but will lose motivation when they realize it won’t happen.

        Ownership doesn’t require marriage, but it does require a strong understanding of commitment between two people.

        As for children not belonging to their mother beyond nursing age, a few thousand years of maternal instinct might disagree with you. That doesn’t mean that a father does not own his children. He does. (Because the slippery slope of non parental ownership just makes it easier for the state to claim ownership.)

    • #21 by Athol Kay: Married Man Sex Life on September 17, 2011 - 9:52 AM

      All she wants to know is if you’re going to be controlled by her expressing emotion. If you are, you lose attraction in her eyes.

      Her expression of emotion is simply an indicator of interest in you.

      What you’re meant to do is tell her to get on the back of the motorcycle and ride off with her.

      • #22 by Jennifer on September 17, 2011 - 3:34 PM

        It’s not always about control, Athol.

  8. #23 by dannyfrom504 on September 17, 2011 - 7:59 AM

    Great post brother man.

    I thought of this from the “cave man” POV. It’s inherent in our nature as men to take risks and engage in dangerous activities.

    If the village is being attacked and your cave lass recommends you run and hide….uh, no. I’m helping to keep the village safe.

    • #24 by dogsquat on September 17, 2011 - 9:28 PM

      Shit! The village is being attacked?

      Your preregistered fires are AB1001 through AB1006. We’ve got a section of Cobras in general support from 1300 until 1425 or bingo fuel. Get with the FAC and whistle up some fast movers. React is Oscar Mike to PP8 at this time, ETA 25 mikes. Deconflict your fire lanes according to SOP.

      Fuck the ROE. If it moves, kill it.

      Fire the FPF if you see my red star cluster.

      I’ll be with Thag and Gronk in 3rd Platoon’s area.

      Village 6 out.

      • #25 by theprivateman on September 18, 2011 - 10:26 AM

        And I thought that PUA terminology was opaque…

      • #26 by dannyfrom504 on September 19, 2011 - 7:58 AM

        i can’t even begin to tell you how funny this post was. fucking gold Devil-Dog. kill. village 2 is oscar mike, thanks for not blue falconing us.

  9. #27 by a girl on September 17, 2011 - 11:31 AM

    I agree with Dogsquat’s response to Richard, and also ‘Just Visiting’.
    As a woman, if I care about someone, it’s natural for me to want to remove them from what I see as harm’s way. And that would be beneficial to me too, because I don’t want to be a widow before my time!

    But I agree that it takes away from a man’s ‘manhood’ if he is prevented from doing things that make him a man, i.e. dangerous things. I would therefore respect the man’s decision to ‘resist’ me.
    If he backs down, I would feel he cares enough about my opinion to listen to it. But that is only in extreme dangerous situations.

    Yes, if he agrees to whatever I say, I will lose respect and attraction for him.

    However, be wary of the woman who is NEVER oncerned about you. She may well not care at all.
    Very bad thing for a man.

    • #28 by Jester on October 15, 2011 - 7:21 AM

      No offense intended here… Really! lol I’m 99.9% sure this is a subconscious blurt, but does anyone else see the irony of this statement?
      “And that would be beneficial to me too, because I don’t want to be a widow before my time!”
      She could have made any number of follow-up statements here… “My kids would be devastated to lose their father.” or “the loss of my husband would be crushing to our families.”, even “his friends and family would lose a major component of their lives.”
      Read it again… It might take a second to click. lol
      Again, not picking on you girl… it was just one of those ironic woman things. Other than that, your post was really good! =)

  10. #29 by Vader on September 17, 2011 - 12:55 PM

    Apropos… http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/182121-mitch-daniels-did-not-run-for-president-for-family

    Assuming this wasn’t a bullshit excuse (which it very well could have been), this falls into the same category: nothing is much more risky than running for president (if you have a chance Yo win, like Mitch did).

    This guy already took back his wife who left him to marry another man so his alpha street cred can already be assumed to be questionable despite being chief executive of a state. Now he once again defers to the women in his life in making a key decision. Again, this could just be a smoke screen. But if it’s not, two points make a line and I wouldn’t be surprised if the former/current Mrs. Daniels once again changes her marital status. And the gub’ner will wonder “why?”

  11. #30 by Looking Glass on September 18, 2011 - 12:17 AM

    When it comes to a Presidential run, if your family isn’t on board, you’re screwed. You need them pulling 18 hour days along with you, then their lives are going to be dissected and plastered all over the nightly news. You really can’t volunteer people to that kind of job. They need to be up for it.

    So, that’s a little different than a normal job choice. But you’re not asking permission, you’re asking if they’re up for the run. While Mitch doesn’t have much Alpha cred (he’s a wonk, really), I don’t think that can be thrown up to wholly a Beta move. And if she did leave him at one point, that “other guy” would be a staple of MSNBC from now until whenever. These are legitimate concerns for a politician.

  12. #31 by Bill on September 18, 2011 - 12:43 AM

    Vader

    Good real-life example.

    Bill

  13. #32 by johnnymilfquest on September 18, 2011 - 2:18 PM

    When the woman questions the bike she essentially says:

    “I don’t trust your judgement. I know what’s best for you.”

    I’d let her know that you’re not some dumb kid who goes out with no helmet, no leathers, etc.

    If she can’t respect that – bye bye!

  14. #33 by My Name Is Jim on September 19, 2011 - 4:06 PM

    A little off the main point, my wife WANTS me to get a motorcycle (she’s always loved them) and I’m happy to oblige. But I’ve never had a class M license before and need to do some research. I don’t really want a sport bike or a touring, or something too low riding, I’m thinking a standard. It has to be big enough to accomodate her riding in back of me reasonably comfortably. I’m not talking about long rides, just something for tooling about town. If there are any real must-reads to help me pick one out, I would look at any pointers. I’m terminally organized about this sort of thing and want to know I’m making a good decision the first time.

    • #34 by theprivateman on September 19, 2011 - 5:45 PM

      I don’t know what state you live in but I guessing you will be required to take the MSF beginners class. Do it. They should provide a small motorcycle for training purposes.

      Read “Proficient Motorcycling” and understand countersteering.

      Full face helmet, armored jacket, armored gloves, real motorcycling boots. Wear these things always when on a motorcycle. All the gear, all the time (ATGATT)

      As for what motorcycle, that depends on your riding experience. If you have NO experience, it gets rather problematic. A 650 cc engine motorcycle is a huge handful for a beginner, 650 being a relatively common size bike with enough umph to tote you and your wife around quite nicely. So with no experience, you need to seriously consider a “starter” bike with a much smaller engine, the Kawasaki Ninja 250 (not really a sportbike) being a typical starter bike. Always get a used bike as a starter bike because you’ll drop it, guaranteed. With a few thousand miles on the starter bike, it’s time to think of the bigger bike. Personally, I recommend something in 600 – 750 cc range for a good mix of performance and price. Also, stick with a two (or more) cylinder bike. It’s a torque thing.

      Standard motorcycles are actually not that common. As you will be getting a Japanese motorcycle, here are some standard bikes that the manufacturer might actually classify as a sport or other category of bike (based on 2012 models):

      Suzuki V-Strom 650
      Kawasaki Versys (650 cc engine)
      Kawaski ER-6n (650 cc engine)
      Honda NT700V (680 cc engine)
      BMW F 800 ST (I know, not Japanese)
      Yamaha FZ6R (600 cc engine

      • #35 by My Name Is Jim on September 19, 2011 - 6:40 PM

        thanks.

  15. #36 by Dannyfrom504 on September 19, 2011 - 8:48 PM

    Thanks for the response. I really want to learn to ride a motorcycle. This was informative for me.

    I’ll chat with you later about this.

  16. #37 by NMH on September 20, 2011 - 6:14 AM

    I spend about $150 per month operating a car (gas + insurance + taxes). This does not include the original cost of the car. Can someone give me an idea what it would cost to operate a typical motorcycle pr month?

  17. #38 by Anacaona on September 22, 2011 - 11:11 PM

    I know I’m late but I wanted to comment.
    You are right this is a shit test, but is a confusing one she might be looking for more alpha (deny her feelings and continue to mount your bike like THE MAN you are) or more Beta ( understanding that she is feeling very uncomfortable about the real possibility that she might lose you) I will say going for the Alpha route most be the default mode if she is always been responding well to Alpha, but keep and eye on how that makes her react if she is less enthusiastic in bed and start to do stuff that symbolize emotional distance (like keeping her clothes and belongings apart or taking back the things she used to live in her department) if you think the woman is worth more than the bikes, whether reassurance of you using all the protection or quitting altogether would be the Beta move she was fishing for, YMMV as usual..

  18. #39 by Aaron on February 29, 2012 - 2:46 AM

    @lifeinlonglegs.

    This is such a typical defensive response from a woman. Coming from left field ? It’s common knowledge that almost every woman’s job is to make a man feel like they cannot live without a woman and the one way you accomplish that is to take a man’s passion away from them. You are all very creative and manipulative in this process. That is a shit test.

    Btw. You WOULD date or marry a man that rode a motorcycle or risked their life if they made enough money. Then you would take half if need be. Your smart like that right?

    That is the shit test. If men are willing to put up with the constant nagging bullshit that you represent.

    Btw women: speaking of shit, PLEASE stop acting like you don’t shit and that it doesn’t stink.

  19. #40 by Daniel Hearn on February 24, 2013 - 7:21 PM

    Personally if you want to have fun with the dastardly shit test then give the absolute most beta answers, with really fake and obvious exaggeration to let them know that you know that you are being tested, it makes you sick and can we move on to something more interesting. For instance you can say “Yes and I see you driving in that Volvo, don’t ya know it’s an accident waiting to happen ? Anytime you to decide to drive anywhere please call me and let me drive you”. And then let them know this is a reverse shit test in deadpan, get up and walk away. It ain’t worth the nookie. Shit tests reveal a pre-teen mentality, get in their pants and it feels like statutory rape. Get a real woman, one who’s all business.

  20. #41 by Joe on May 27, 2013 - 1:18 PM

    Or maybe she sees herself wiping your ass and supporting you with your brain/spinal injury after you get splattered by a minivan.

  21. #42 by asli on June 23, 2013 - 7:11 AM

    One of my ex-boyfriends was quite fond of mountaineering, which I find very dangerous. I never tried to control him or never wanted him to stop mountaineering, but I showed my geniune concern for his well being and dislike for the danger. When he was feeling down, I even asked him to go to the mountains despite the fact that I hated to think that he could injure himself. Curiously, he has never gone to the mountains when we were dating for a year, although I never tried to stop him. But right now, I can clearly see that his liking for mountaineering was a clear sign of his immaturity.

    I don’t think this is a shit test, because any woman who truly has feelings for a man would also feel protective about him. Although I’m not fond of shit tests, and although I’m not a controlling type, now I can see that these shit tests are actually necessary for women who are looking for long term beta providers. Men who are into dangerous activities and who insist on keeping these reckless behaviours ( “so called alphas”) are not good for long term relationships and marriage since they are immature and selfish (i.e. not good providers).

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