Do you have a question about online dating or IRL dating? Are you a man who has found himself divorces and entering Dating 2.0? Are you a young man who needs the wisdom of a wise uncle? Send me an email: This address also works for Google+ hangouts.
I’m sometimes on Skype:
[I’m doing the Patreon thing, too.]
Hey man, finally got my groove on PoF. Recalibrated my account, within 18 hours, 5 cold messages, 3 from 8+ girls for whom I apparently don’t meet their criteria. (oh, and about 30 visitors) Fucking madness. Any advise on how to rapidly escalate and meet would be good (I appreciate I’m half your age, and in another country with a different dating culture, aha)
If you feel brave, post up the text of your profile. I am very curious. As for escalating, have three or four back and forth messages with the girls. Keep your messages brief and don’t reveal too much of yourself. Try to be witty and confident in your words. After those messages, tell her (not ask) that you will be calling and that you need her phone number. You should always be corresponding with at least three women concurrently.
I don’t know if such a short time frame will work at my age, girls have very poor self-esteems and need a lot of comfort building in my opinion. Still, I get your groove. Had most of today off, so I’ve had time to trawl through my area. Shit ton more girls than OKCupid, but the percentage of hot+smart girls willing to date is much lower. Works out to about the same total number.
(4 pictures of me – main is high quality shot, me in a suit, smiling, but not looking at the camera, babyfaced friend behind me giving a thumbs up. Next is club scene, me with two girls clutched on me, indirectly looking at the camera. One girl giggling away touching me but I’m not positioned to hold her. Another girl is fighting to get her face seen. Next photo is me paintballing in my fly personal gear. Last one is me chilling in a club, trendy smart-casual, half-smirk on my lips, looking into the camera) Text follows:
I’m Australian by descent, born and raised in Greece. Family in and from every corner of the Earth!
Wanderlust runs through my veins. I love traveling off the beaten path: cultural appreciation and seeing the world are key to me.
Chasing the next thrill keeps me going. The scars and stories are testament to that. Total adrenaline junkie. Getting myself a racing bike this summer, and a will, aha. Got some Muay Thai under my belt as well, so I can handle myself when needed.
The above is juxtaposed against my medical degree. Yah, gonna be a doctor. I love what I’m doing, but sometimes I wonder if the restraint I now have to show will drive me mad…
Amateur actor, singer and comedian in the Medics’ Revue. Great fun, great people!
My musical tastes are on the alt side of things. You probably haven’t heard of half the stuff I like (yaah, so hip, little old ladies break me) Electro-jazz, symphonic metal, D’n’B/any other hard dance music, are the current favourites.
Films are just far too numerous to list. Sci-fi, ‘deep’ emotional films, dystopian flicks and well-crafted action get the thumbs up.
I’ll eat just about anything, loving Mediterranean cuisine and fish in particular! Indian, Thai and Mexican will also be consumed with gusto. Like to think I’m a good cook these days as well.
Message me if you’re up for a challenge. Candy satisfaction guaranteed. Be witty and type like an adult, and we’ll get on just fine.
—–(First Date) ————-
Why give the fun and mystery away?
I’m spontaneous, like good atmosphere and tasty drinks (I’m a trained mixologist with a sharp palate) If only it was the 1920s!
You’ve got quite the profile there.
Risk taking and masculinity (the adrenaline thing and kick boxing)
Potential serious affluence (doctor in training)
Worldly (living and traveling in a variety of exotic places)
Appealing to the snowflake (up for a challenge?)
Entertaining (performing on stage)
Intelligence (nice big words)
It’s a good profile for women to build a narrative without you having to reveal too much.
Bonus on the photos – suit, action, with women (preselection), casual.
And your response rate went way up and you got unsolicited messages. You’re doing fine. Never argue with success.
Oh and ‘interests’
Hedonism Arts Culture
Adrenaline Sports Cooking Exploring
Cheers PM. It’s appreciated to hear something good. My OKCupid profile is a more expanded version of that, site is more adjusted to longer profiles that allow for some wit/humour and ‘lists’.
I think I jinxed myself, most of my messages are getting read, but certainly not hitting that 30% response rate. A few unread deletions. And the one 8 unsolicited who is also the only smart one from the bunch read then deleted my last message to her (and I really can’t see why, aha) [though I think the overall problem is that they see some serious alpha cred, then read that I’m 19 and barely average height for a guy]
Also, most girls in my age band that are 7+ are complete retards. Can’t type in proper English, generic/substanceless/boring profiles and/or obvious drama queens (‘Wnt a nce guy’ etc etc)
I reckon I’ll have exhausted messaging hot+semi-interesting people within a 50 mile radius of me by Sunday. 100 messages give or take. Bah.
Being on PoF has finally killed any last pretty lies I hold, and I’m now angry. Very angry. When I shouldn’t be. But I still am.
Check my latest post: https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/embrace-constant-rejection/
It might help dispel the anger.
Good post, but it’s not even the rejection that’s the main problem. It’s finally coming to realise that most women basically suck ass. The number of girls who are attractive, smart, interesting, well mannered and single is pathetically small.
And my salve that is buying into Game has worn thin. I had belief in it as a panacea, but what good is even the tighest Game when you get looked over because your birth certificate says you’re physically young, and your doctor’s note say you’re a tad short.
And how even with tight Game I still totally blow away easy chances. I mean pathetically easy, I’m talking about 2 bona fided nymphos here who are openly talking about sex, sending me pictures, showing me stuff over Skype, and yet they blow me off when I push to meet in person.
I’m still beta at my core. In some ways, taking the red pill has made me more human, made me realise what I am, and what the people around me are. And yet in others ways it’s dehumanising me. I can’t trust anymore, I can’t show emotion, or vulnerability, I know not to get married. Is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I think so.
Apologies for the rant, anonymous internet posting is my therapy I guess. I really should start blogging again.
I feel for ya Hughman… Let me introduce you to a concept that works wonders for me. I came across it by accident because of a similar situation to what you are/were going through at one time. It’s called, “I don’t care!” I’ll post my profile add-on in a bit, but let me assure you I have never received so much unsolicited mail on POF EVER! I get 3-10 mails a day and they usually aren’t skanks. Even though on my profile I have stated that I am unavailable for dating, they are pouring out of the woodwork. Most of the time I have 2-5 women on the go at once. Not because I want 2-5 women, but because women are natural flakes when it comes to OLD™ (Online Dating) it’s necessary to keep busy. Here’s the update on my profile:
*Update* So, over the past few weeks of my sabbatical from the dating world; I’ve received a number of emails from people on here asking all sorts of questions. Here are some of the more common ones w/answers to save us all some time. lol
Why are you still on here?
I still have people I talk to on a regular basis both here (the GTA) and abroad. I still have a smidge of faith left, but generally believe the system to be broken. Like I said, I do enjoy reading profiles on here… Mostly for a laugh, but it serves a purpose. Sure, I want to contact people on here sometimes, but is it really worth it if they’re just going to Bull Shit their way thru things or the classic “flake out” after a few back-and-forth emails? Not-so-much.
*Calling women out as flakes seems to lower the amount of flakes that seem to be contacting me.*
Does this mean you aren’t dating?
Not at the moment. I have plenty of good friends and animals that keep me busy. I give my time to those that deserve it. I’m not into people who have entitlement issues; which is about 90% of the people I have talked to on here. (I deserve to be with “X” kind of guy because I’m “such a great catch”) FYI… You don’t deserve jack shit until you’ve proven yourself with an actual person in a relationship. Maybe if you’re lucky, you’ll find someone that you don’t deserve to be with. Think about it.)
*Hardcore “I’m not putting up with your shit” and if you try it on me you’ll be shut-down*
Are you as bitter as I am about this site?
Nope, not bitter at all. I just seriously don’t care anymore. lol
*Laughing at them and “I don’t care” while not being negative*
Don’t you think it’s a little bit unfair to lump us all (women) into one category?
Nope… It’s up to you, just as it’s up to me to prove otherwise. You think all men get a fair shake on this site?
*Challenge them… Women want to be challenged. Throw it out there!*
You don’t seem happy…
Quite the contrary; I’m a very happy person… Because I don’t care. lol
*Personally, I think reinforcing that “I don’t care” and I’m not letting this get to me comes across as a strength instead of a whiny weakness.*
When will you coming back? (to dating)
I really have yet to meet (in person) someone who is hardcore truthful about who they are from this site. If you want to stop the bad 1st date train, figure out who you REALLY are and what you REALLY want… Get rid of all the stupid cliches on your profile and show people who you really are, not what you want them to see. (Same goes for pictures) I guarantee you that despite what you believe about yourself (whether it’s appearance, personality or needs) is a striking contradiction to what others are seeing.
*Lay the seeds of doubt… Make them think about what they are all about and you’ll get the mouse in the wheel moving again. “Am I not as *blank* as I think I am?” If you make them think, you’ll separate yourself from the rest of the herd.*
Hope this helps for anyone that needs it.
“And how even with tight Game I still totally blow away easy chances. I mean pathetically easy, I’m talking about 2 bona fided nymphos here who are openly talking about sex, sending me pictures, showing me stuff over Skype, and yet they blow me off when I push to meet in person.”
You met two online attention whores. They were likely married or in a serious relationship.
I know they were single, but yes, attention whoes for sure. It just reminded the remained parts of me still sucking on the blue pill how it isn’t fair that a pretty girl in a tight dress and some flirty behaviour can quite happily get her notch count from 0 to what I have in about 2 weeks, when I’ve been at it for something like 3 years.
(and the other part of it is the Roissy maxim of: a girl talking about sex, is thinking about sex with you. And these girls have it on their mind.)
Aw Hughman, I’m sorry. It’s good and healthy to know that game won’t get everything, but keeping your confidence frame, for your own sake, is vital. And kudos to you for seeing poor quality women for what they are!
If I leave a reply will it automatically publish or do you review it first?
Bc I was going to give you my profile name on match.com to check out. I’m 43.
For your first comment, I review it for approval. Your subsequent comments will be published automatically.
I’m a young woman, 18 to be exact. I’ve taken the Red Pill. I’ve realised that the ‘Alpha man’ i’ve been investing time, emotion and energy into is an a**hole and will continue to be so. I sent him a text telling him (not in a bitter or confrontational way) but very calmly that I am not waiting for him to decide whether or not he has feelings for me and that when he decides to be a good person and treats me properly as I deserve he knows what to do but until then I will enjoy life and have fun. (meaning without him) This man replied, “thank u.” I was stunned. But then, I texted back, “no…thank you, for freeing me.”
My question is, as a relationship advisor and as a man, where is he coming from? whats with his behaviour? Will he look back and try for me again? We have stopped communicating in the past and then became involved again…This time, is much more serious because I’m determined not to give into him until he commits and changes his bad behaviour. Is there any chance for us in the future? I’m not contacting him after that conversation.
He’s young. He’s fulfilling his biological imperative of spreading his seed widely. His behavior is perfectly normal and natural. He will likely do so until he experiences a desire to be more stable, perhaps in his late 20s or early 30s. If he’s a real alpha and has taken the red pill himself. It will be a life of soft harems. This is the way of the red pill alpha men.
His bad behavior made your ‘gina tingle and so you took him back. But If he changes his behavior for you, you’ll likely lose respect for him. This is the way of women and girls.
He’s done. If he tries to come back, it’s because there’s a vacancy in his harem.
The real work is your own introspection.
a “soft harem”. that too funny. i recently retired my “stable” back in new orleans. it was the subject of quite a few email between me and Rivelino. and yes indeed, i didn’t quite settle down until i was about 29-30.
This is where the red pill stuff turns into loose sex rationalization; it may be normal to be biologically compelled to have sex, but it’s not “normal” to treat women like assholes. I would respect a man who put aside his as*hole ways, not even necessarily for me but for a general cause. If a couple’s married, though, the jerk should most definitely fix any bad behavior for her. Only a foolish woman puts tingles above everything else, is even seriously attracted to an asshole and then feels disdain if he finally gets himself under control. If he were a smarter man, and you rewarded the good behavior and shunned the bad crap, he may have wised up and listened. But he doesn’t care, he’s an ass and you are better off; don’t look back.
“If he’s a real alpha and has taken the red pill himself. It will be a life of soft harems. This is the way of the red pill alpha men”
The red pill is nothing new then; shallow asshats have been doing that for centuries.
Sir, you are like a prophet. You may have the philosophy to fill the void left by the late Patrice O’Neal. If you aren’t familiar, look him up. He took the red pill and made a career out of it.
That’s quite the compliment, thank you. Yes, I am familiar with Patrice O’Neal. I occasionally watch his videos for a fillup of my Red Pill psyche.
Just a quick observation. It seems as though I am reading lots of rhetoric from a disgruntled Beta, rather than the authentic insights of a truly confident, self-assured and successful (as success is measured by one’s own yardstick) man. I wonder if you have considered the possiblity that you have frustrated yourself unnecessarily by, being a Beta, spending your lifetime persuing Alpha Females?
A true Alpha (male or female) needs not put so much effort and thought into coming up with “game” or with devaluing others in order to make him/herself feel more alpha-like. You, my sir, are an Alpha-wannabe.
I will not deny my transition away from beta is an ongoing process.
As well, the alpha female is merely a social construct that only a few women choose to pursue. It’s been my experience that alpha females are nothing more than women who were raised improperly or who have drunk deeply of the social expectation kool-aid in that women are supposed to be “strong and independent” (using that phrase in its cliched form).
Your comment that a true Alpha has little need for Game is correct. The problem is that most men have been trained to be Beta and Game is the constant struggle to allow men to be Alpha.
I guess maybe I should have clarified myself a tad better. I was not suggesting that you are “Beta” at all. I have spent some time reading over your blog the last few days, and in my estimation, professionally and as a man, you are neither alpha nor beta. I would venture to even say that you are a bit (if not a lot) narcissistic, which bodes ill for you in any relationship context. Alphas and Betas (using your terminology here) are, by your defininition, people who have a solid sense of self and are able to engage on an emotional and empathetic level with other human beings. Your writing, while very open and honest, lacks a sense of humility and self-awareness. I know I am beating a silent drum here though, because being narcissistic, you will never see for yourself that the primary dysfunction in your relationships with women and the world around you is you–or the lack of “you”–because you have no true sense of who you are or who you should be. Thus, you try so hard to examine the behavior of others and emulate it.
This is probably whistling in the wind, but I’d like to respond.
PM, apologies for the length of this response. Get rid of it if you want.
SEAL, leaving aside the obvious attempt at shaming language you heap on PM, you suggest a couple of things; (1) that Game is merely a tool to bed women; and (2) that Game’s practitioners live a lie and don’t really know who they are, and are thus incapable of true relationships. I think you’re wrong on both counts.
(1): At its core, Game is not, as your posts suggest, a form of manipulation to get women into bed. There are some who form elaborate lines, routines and choregraphy to do that, but that is only one part of what Game is. In my estimation, Game is a mindset, a frame if you will, that responds to and explodes the myths and lies that we men have been taught for two generations. Chief among these lies is that if we are Nice Guys (TM) and we just act as ourselves, women will flock to us. Our parents, our teachers, our civic and religious authorities, our society, lied to us that we needed to be unfailingly nice and pleasant to all women, that we had to suck up to them and put up with their unreasonable demands, and give them whatever they asked for. We were told that if only we did these things, we would find That One Special Woman (TM) and she would love us forever. We were also told that if it did not work out with That One Special Woman (TM), no one else would ever love us, and we would be relegated to a life of loneliness and involuntary celibacy.
These are nothing but pretty lies.
We tried these things. We tried wooing girls with the “nice guy” treatment. They did not work. What worked was our inner game, i.e. becoming the best men we could be through our work, improving our physical bodies, and exercising our minds, to project outer confidence and dominance in the spheres we live and work in.
We learned about the true nature of women. Most men are not even remotely attractive to most women. But nearly all women are at least somewhat attractive to most men. Women are not naturally monogamous, but are hypergamous (i.e. they seek the best men they can get for sex and relationships). If a man tingles a woman, she’ll be attracted to him. But if he no longer tingles her, she’ll seek another man who does. Women initiate 70% of divorces. The laws are heavily rigged in favor of women to protect their hypergamous choices. Women rarely say what they really mean.
Women are able to formulate a rationalization for everything they do, even if it fails every moral, social, relationship, religious, or societal standard. And they can cause that rationalization to make absolute, perfect sense to themselves, even in the face of boatloads of conflicting factual evidence. Women deploy emotions and feelings where men employ logic and reason. Women are the gatekeepers of sex; men are the gatekeepers of investment and commitment. Women are drawn to male displays of confidence, social dominance, power and charisma. Men are drawn to women with the attributes of youth, physical appeal, chastity and fertility.
These are the ugly truths we have faced and accepted.
(2) On the contrary, those who don’t practice inner and outer game are those who don’t truly know who they are. They have no idea what they can do once armed with the truth. LIving the pretty lies places an unnatural veneer over a man, and prevents him from showing his true self.
It is only when he understands his own nature and that of women, that he can truly know himself.
It is only when he can cast off a relationship that no longer works for him, and then stand on his own alone, that he can know what he can do (and do without). It is only when he can say he doesn’t need the woman, that he can know himself. And then, knowing himself, he can offer his true self to a woman on his terms alone, and she can accept or reject as she sees fit. I can say I’ve learned more about myself, and what I can do, in the last three months than I’ve learned in the past 25 years as a man.
SEAL, nobody is pulling a fast one here. No one’s defrauding anyone else (or, at least, men are not the ones doing the defrauding). Men get in this game to get sex. Women get in this game to secure a man’s resources and commitment. This is how it has always been. It is just that the rules have changed in the last 30 or so years. It used to be that the exchange was above board and clean — sex for commitment/money, and vice versa, FOR LIFE.
In the past 30 years, the woman secures the man’s resources and commitment — but only for as long as she wants them or decides she needs them. And the current laws in the United States reflect this. The new rules say she can leave anytime she wants, for any reason she wants. Usually, she wants out because her husband/LTR boyfriend is not sufficiently alpha. He doesn’t make enough money. He’s gotten older, fatter and balder, He lets her make the rules. He cowers and rushes to her aid every time she is upset, angry or agitated. He gives in on every fight or disagreement. He’s been down on his luck or unemployed for a while. He’s stressed out because he hates his job and he’s tired all the time. He does whatever she wants, whenever she wants. He’s at her beck and call all the time. So she breaks up or initiates divorce proceedings, taking half of his stuff and income, and ruining the children’s lives and her own in the process. She continues taking his stuff and income, while ending his sexual relationship with her.
Men started getting wise to this. They noticed their wives saying things like “I’m unhappy” or “I don’t find you physically attractive” or “I love you, but I’m not in love with you”. And they started figuring out why — it was because they weren’t accepting their dominant roles in their relationships with their wives. Single men noticed they could not get second dates. Men noticed that showering girls with attention and niceness only drove the girls away or creeped them out. They noticed that the ROI was pretty low on buying girls drinks, meals and gifts. They started figuring out that women were asking questions to which they did not want direct answers or challenging them to test their mettle as men (also known as fitness testing). And these single men started figuring out that they had been lied to — that everything their parents, society and authorities had told them was simply not true.
Women do not want nice guys. Wives do not want supplicating, groveling betas. They want men who can stand on their own two feet. They want men who set the course of their relationships and marriages. They want men who will tell them no when necessary. They want men who will not put up with their shit. They want men who know what they want and pursue it. Wives want some beta in their husbands, but they want more alpha — more independence, more dominance, more leadership, more assertiveness.
That’s why Game is much more than a tool to get women in bed. That’s why Game helps men know who they truly are.
And another thing, SEAL:
You accuse PM of narcissism. I think that’s incorrect. A healthy regard for oneself is not narcissism. Recognizing one’s own strengths and successes is not narcissism, particularly when those successes are put out for public consumption in a public forum for others to study and perhaps to replicate. Acknowledging improvements where there had been shortcomings before is not narcissism.
Betas are taught to be subservient, subordinate and supplicating. They are taught and conditioned to subordinate their own desires and sacrifice themselves, sometimes for undeserving, ungrateful women. Unlearning those behaviors is a difficult thing. Learning to love yourself after a lifetime of being taught you should hate yourself and your desires is a difficult thing. Learning to put your own desires first and not prioritize others above yourself when they haven’t earned it is a difficult thing.
So I think a little self-love and self-regard is not uncalled for.
Alpha in the way of confidence and assertiveness, hopefully, not being a player ashsole.
A man the woman wants is “confident and assertivene” even if other men and women see him as a player asshole.
Women define the terms, and re-define them when it doesn’t work for them.
Ive never seen PM say that he is a bonafide alpha. All he is trying to do is use game to improve his success rate with women.
It’s a shame that thoughtful introspection and self-awareness is considered beta. Shows how fucked up most people are.
Thoughtful introspection and self-awareness are positive traits in anyone. What is really sad is the need, by some, to create social divides by classifying people in categories such as “Alpha” and “Beta”. Somewhere on the web, I actually saw someone refer to himself as “Omega” because his self-esteem was so low that he had given up on ever finding a life-partner. People are just that, people. Everyone is human and has both positive and negative aspects of personality that they bring into any relationship, whether male or female. Those who need to pigeon hole themselves and others simply succeed in limiting their possibilities to be happy and enjoy life while appreciating and yes, even loving the differences in those around them.
But to understand this concept, one must have a solid, genuine sense of himself and be, above all, have the ability to accept his own shortcomings, and take responsibility for his part in relationships that have failed–not because he failed to adequately “control” his woman or every other aspect of the relationship, but because he is HUMAN and imperfect…Just as we all are.
Recently discovered your blog, and find it very empowering and encouraging. In several places you use words to this effect:
“If you haven’t had sex yet, a woman is looking for reasons to reject you.”
Quite a game changer for me, but something I’ve sensed intuitively for a long time. It’s happened more than I care to admit, but I never had the words to describe it. Can you elaborate some? Describe the net effect of this, and perhaps discuss how a man can counter this?
Thanks – – –
I will be posting on this today. Stay tuned.
Hello , it a nice one you have here but i will like us to get to know each other … I am Veronica Abi and i am single …. This is my email address email@example.com . please link up and we should exchange photos and get to know each other well …bye for now
OK, what’s the take on this?
“Detested” is an interesting choice of words for the headline.
I thought that anal sex would be even more so.
Regardless, it’s a vaguely interesting article written in haste and likely yield a quick 25 bucks to some hapless freelance writer.
Yeah, maybe, I didn’t take the time to analyze the writer’s mechanics.
However, the real fun is the commentary debate…
I have to confess, your writing style is very engaging and some of your concepts are indeed highly provoking. I have enjoyed several of them personally. I just want to pass a url along to you, just in case you haven’t followed some of his writings. I believe you would find it to be of interest.
Thanks for the compliment.
Marc Rudov is already in my list o’ links on my blog.
Marc is one of the original red pill guys and he’s doing great work in the media calling attention to some important red pill issues.
Have you seen this video? It’s women speaking truth about why they are attracted to assholes.
Conclusion: women suck, and we have to deal with it.
at least she’s honest. This is the most honest statement of what women really want — from the horse’s mouth.
Yes, their honesty is a refreshing change. The culture milleiu today is so female centric that they are not at all ashamed of admitting they want a bad boy. Before they would have wanted one and not admitted that, because the PC feminists would have shammed them. Now feminists say it doesn’t matter what you want, ANYTHING you want in a guy is good. Because it is all about you.
Of course the bad boy has to commit, after she has discerned that her man will make her gina tingle forever.
No detinn, that’s not what all women really want.
Just shows how damn pathetic our culture’s gotten. In the past, I think men really had a better balance: the warriors who fought for their countries also wrote beautiful letters of love to their wives. Now, we have people thinking that men must be either the passionate letter-writers or the warriors, or worse, the DESERTERS (the paradox of women wanting losers); there’s no in-between. And so many women are stupid enough to feed guys this lie. Feminism was what threw it off balance: it demanded that men, who had been trained to have natural strength from childhood, suffocate this strength and pander instead, becoming supplicating. Hence, the “nice guy” hated image came up. And men began to retaliate by going too far in the other direction, that of assholes, because the loose women were rewarding them for it; women who were not always stupid, but simply hungering for male strength in such a great way that they learned to embrace poor imitations of it.
“…because the loose women were rewarding them for it.”
I LOL when I saw that one. I can tell you from my anecdotal observations as a man and from talking with other men that ALL women are succeptible to the allure of the asshole. Some a whole lot more than others. But to say that only “loose women” reward bad boy behavior is just another attempt by a female (surprise surprise run hamster run!) to muddy the waters on this topic.
What I said was that many loose women were rewarding them for it, genuis, and that some were doing so for reasons more than looseness. Surprise surprise, we do not all like assholes.
If you make the decision to build a life with a man because
– he is taller than you
– many other women are attracted to him
– he does things or treats you in ways you’d scream negatively at if other men did to you
– he “puts others in their place”
– he is mysterious
– he used babytalk on you
– he supposedly earns more than you
you may be attracted to assholes but pretend not to be to justify being a “good woman”. (With the idea being you are trying to find the best man by juggling other men — while men who do this get called players and cads. Weird)
Sometimes I get the feeling women who complain about the guys they’re with, are actually tring to get emotional support from MEN THEY ARE NOT ATTRACTED TO.
Once their need for emotional support is fed, back to the asshole for the rumpy-pumpy.
P.S. If somebody checked up on women to verify whether or not they were dating assholes, you can bet that person would be called out on violations of privacy.
Wonder why women feel free to snoop into mens’ phones and e-mail accounts without that happening to them? Double standards in the law?
P.P.S. This whole idea of “relationship failed because the MAN wasn’t man enough” is something both CONservative and LIbEral women embrace. Might it have to do with the fact that they don’t want to accept responsibility for their part in the failure of the relationship?
– he is taller than you
– many other women are attracted to him
– he does things or treats you in ways you’d scream negatively at if other men did to you
– he “puts others in their place”
– he is mysterious
– he used babytalk on you
– he supposedly earns more than you
All of those are either stupid reasons to date a guy, or things that downright repulse me. No way in hell.
The usual saying applies,
“Men are now watching what women DO. Not what they SAY THEY DO”.
After all, building a life with someone without verifying that trust isn’t misplaced (as the Ronald-Reaganism goes)
… is simply a bad idea.
The good people won’t mind the checks,
the bad people will be repulsed (hopefully).
True, and good people should be repulsed not by normal flaws, but by narcissism and ugliness towards others.
That narcissism includes the idea that a religious person is automatically good, I hope.
And I hope the ugliness also means that those who take the time to make an informed decision are not told that they are “just playing around”.
Hell yes, among other things; people shouldn’t make anything but informed decisions in such serious matters. A great deal of the wicked things I’ve seen have been from “religious people”, sadly. But not only, of course.
help….1st let me say that I love your site! I discovered it this am…i posted a comment on the “awful profiles by women” page….I tried to put a pic on with my comment and it didnt send as a link, it sent with my daughters name by accident….please remove it for her privacy sake……help
I found an interesting article on OkCupid that you may or may not have seen before. I haven’t seen any mention of it here though it does remind me of another report that was mentioned here about mens height in proportion to emails recieved on dataing profiles.
This particular artcile has to do with how women rate the general attractiveness of men and how women rate the majority of men as less attractive than the median. OkCupid even calls it out that women have unrealistic expecations for attractiveness!
It’s a very good article and has been circulated ’round the Manosphere several times. Perhaps it’s time to do it again.
Observation on the challenge of online dating:
Analogy: online dating is equivalent to answering job ads. You can answer all the ads you want, but unless you hit every bell, you’ll get ignored along with the hordes.
But having seen this in many places I’ve worked, actual jobs mostly go to ‘known locals’, who are obviously NOT hitting all the bells, but are known and trusted. Companies will always give a job to a known, but slightly under-qualified candidate over a better-qualified stranger. This may well be the factor behind the Peter principle.
So it is with women on the internet. You are but one regular dude answering an ad. Hit all the bells, you may have a chance. My takeaways: if you want to meet quality women on the internet, have a killer profile followed up by superb game. A tough call for most of us.
I say, become the ‘known local’ in multiple venues. Develop your face-to-face game and go very public. Get out from behind that screen and go meet people, everywhere, all the time. Learn to be a stand-up comedian (take a class). Go to bartenders school (a great time!). Just get out there and be social.
Sure, the occasional dabble on web sites is OK, but just like in the job market, you need to do more than answer ads.
“But having seen this in many places I’ve worked, actual jobs mostly go to ‘known locals’, who are obviously NOT hitting all the bells, but are known and trusted. Companies will always give a job to a known, but slightly under-qualified candidate over a better-qualified stranger. This may well be the factor behind the Peter principle. ”
That’s the idea of being the “least worst” option.
In other words, women will choose a guy they have friends in common with over a stranger.
Must make their pool of men very small, since with all the relational aggression (between girls to take guys out of the pool of eligible candidates, so that the women get the chance to say who is attractive — hence the women are “policing the attractiveness hierarchy”) to damage mens’ repuations, only the most alpha guy gets the pass.
Then the women try to share him, but know that complaining about him will make other women want him for the drama.
Fast forward 10 years and most of the women get married to men they feel no compunction about divorcing.
It’s also a lot easier to accept disappointment or underperformance from people others vouch for, the idea being “other people had no problem with him, how come you have the problem? You must be disturbed”.To avoid this, if they don’t meet expectations their faults are glossed over … while the bar for impressing the person if you’re a stranger, goes up.
The predictable conclusion is that the friend “can do no wrong” and the stranger “can do no right”.
People have higher expectations for those they don’t know. Which is why so many friendly incompetents are in charge.
After spending an afternoon reading your blog, I was pissed! Reading what you guys were saying was infuriating! I seriously wanted to walk outside and punch the first person I saw in the face! I was so livid my head was spinning! How the fuck did I let myself become a friggin Beta-Boy!? When I was in my 20’s I had game… And I was very good at it, but I didn’t have to try… It was my natural Alpha coming through. After my last relationship ended a few years ago, I went back into the dating scene but I had lost my edge. I was now as sharp as a soggy newspaper. I became either the “friend”, emotional tampon or doormat to all the women that I dated. In my mind, I rationalized that this is what was expected of me and that girls were just friggin retards… Never did it occur to me that I was the problem. At first when I started reading your blog I was in conflict… “This guy is messed up!”… Women want us to be soft and squishy, sensitive, open to their feelings… *gag* I pulled my balls out of the jar on my ex’s mantle and headed out into the dating scene again… This time I brought a little attitude and a big jar of I-don’t-give-a-crap… I felt like Robin Williams in “Hook”… I remembered!
I had been chatting up this lady on POF for a few weeks (prior to being hit by the Alpha lightning bolt” and had mediocre responses from her… It was a slow sinking ship.
here is the most recent conversation…
HI Jay…good to know…I actually don’t have much to say right now..believe it or not..just finished vacuuming the pool..going to go sit outside and have a drink.
Have a great night.
sorry if I seemed abrupt…didn’t mean to be..was just wanting to get outside for a bit..feed dog..take garbage out..fix leak in air conditioner..ughh..the fun things in life..still haven’t figured out how to be single..hope you had a good night too…. Can we do drinks soon? xo
Well… I don’t know if you’ve proved yourself worthy of my time. lol I’ll get back to you w/date/time
Don’t wait too long… I might be gone by then!! 🙂
lol… Yup, you may be right. If you have something better to do don’t let me hold you up. =)
msg me when you have a time in mind
Before, I would have been trying to pry this girl to talk to me… I would have apologized and sucked-up like there was no tomorrow. Now by setting my stance and letting her know in a subtle way that somehow I’ll get over the fact she didn’t want to talk, I actually have her apologizing to me. Brevity rules when you are establishing position… For those of you that don’t get it yet… You need to! =)
Thanks again PM and crew
PS, could you explain the whole “Hamster” thing for us nooblets? I keep seeing reference to it, but not 100% if I am on the right track.
Phenomenal comment. Just Google “Rationalization Hamster” and you shall be rewarded.
Rationalization hamster: n. That portion of a human being’s brain which creates ex post facto reasons and justifications for a woman’s thoughts, statements and/or actions, the purpose of which is to cause said thoughts, statements and/or actions to make sense and appear reasonable to himself/herself and/or others. ORIGIN: probably the blogger Roissy, now known as heartiste.wordpress.com. Derivation: the visual of a pet hamster running on its exercise wheel, running and spinning like mad, but ultimately going absolutely nowhere.
Looks like you learned a good frame.
“At first when I started reading your blog I was in conflict… “This guy is messed up!”… ”
LOL That’s true for a lot of game sites, actually, even when they have some good points 😛
Good advice from a woman for women. Sounds she understands game.
Whoa. She was doing perfectly until she advised girls letting their bfs go to strip clubs, flirt with other women and blame themselves if he cheats.
Zounds! This might require an entire post!
This photo about says it all. Newlywed bride posing with Marilyn Monroe statue: (safe for work)
This page is getting big… I’ll try and keep this brief. lol
I have an interesting, if not essential question for you and your readers. (Really long) Story short, I got really sick about 2 years ago. Turns out I have a chronic illness that is going to be with me for a long time… A very moody and unpredictable illness. No, I’m not a woman, although by that description many would diagnose the illness as just being female. lol While being invisible to those around me… It’s not like I’m missing a leg or have a third eye on my forehead… It is not something that can be detected simply by looking at me, but does need to be disclosed at some point. It has caused me to cut dates short or even cancel them altogether at times, so a bit of “FYI” seems to be in order early on in the relationship. (Or is it?)
In the dating game, where confidence is key; illnesses like these are devastating… Especially if they are very personal in nature. I have found it very challenging to disclose this information to the women I’m seeing without coming across as emasculated by the illness… It simply comes across as a weakness. Needless to say, “rub some dirt on it and walk it off” does not really apply here… Trust me, I tried. lol
Any advice on how to not look like a total powder-puff while having this conversation. You think dating is tough? Try dating with this monkey on your back.
If it’s not an STD, why do you feel you even have to disclose this illness to someone you’re dating, unless you’re talking about getting married? I guess I don’t see why you need to discuss or disclose it.
Anyway — best advice I can think of is to have the discussion, talk to her about it, and do so matter-of-factly. Keep the discussion as brief as you can while disclosing the important details.
Pitch perfect advice, Detinn.
It’s unfortunately a condition that, while not something you can see (usually), it does interfere with my life on a regular basis. (Sudden excruciating gut pain… To the point where I can’t control the anguish on my face, involuntary tears, suddenly going very pale, etc. ) Not something I can hide easily especially with the weight swings that come with it. I tried to hide it from the first few women I dated… Let’s just say I freaked them out a bit. I’m 6’3/190lbs, so when I have a weight shift I can drop as much as 20-25 in a month. It’s very noticeable, so it’s kind of hard to hide that shit. lol
I try and keep things as brief as I can, but women are curious creatures sometimes. They usually ask a lot of questions… Usually about how it will effect them. (go figure) Trust me, I’d rather just keep it to myself… I really, really hate talking about it especially with strangers. Needless to say, it really stresses me out. On a few occasions women have blown me off because they “couldn’t deal with it”… It must be terrible for them! *rolls eyes*
I think I know what you’re talking about. Since you’re the one with the condition, you have the control over how it’s discussed. I still suggest simply telling dates about it only when it becomes a real problem or noticeable. I wonder if you don’t need more medical attention to get this under control so that at least you don’t have the sudden gut pain, even if you can’t avoid the weight fluctuations.
It’s too bad many women are selfish about it and only want to know how this affects them, but that’s the world we live in now.
Thanks for the advise. I do have an excellent specialist looking after me… He’s actually one of the best specialists in the world and just so happens his office is near me in Toronto. He’s the first one that I have seen that has got results in 3 years. I seem to have a really moody version of the condition. Its unpredictability is what makes it such a nightmare when dating. Trying to explain it to a woman and not look “weak” is tough to do. I think I’m just going to practice brevity on this topic… If they push for info I’ll deflect and distract… “Look! Shiny!” *pulls out keys and jingles them in front of her face* lol
This gets a WTF? award. Scroll down the the lady doing the splits.
Hello Private Man,
I’ve just recently discovered your blog while googling “why are women promiscuous?” After browsing around and reading some of your material, I am amazed by the quality and number of blogs posted here. Well to cut to the chase, I respectfully hope that you may please help me in a situation that’s quite bothersome for me as for the many men who may share the same position as I do.
I am a 21 year old college student. I don’t know why, but over this summer, I said to myself, “I have to do it! I have to find me that special woman out there!” Although these are just plain words alone, I do have a strong will and determination to go out and search for that special woman. The trouble is I haven’t found a woman out there that fits my standards.
You see I haven’t dated a woman, haven’t kissed a woman, and haven’t had sex. If there was one word that best describes me in terms of dating, relationships, and all things related, it would have to be VIRGIN! Plain and simple! I haven’t fooled around! If we humans were to get printouts of our dating record like we get printouts of our driving record at the DMV, then I would be a “clean” human being. I’m not tainted or filthy in anyway according to my dating record.
Since middle school I always wanted to have a girlfriend and date just like all my friends. In high school I was faced with the same situation, but on a much great scale than middle school. This time, events like prom and senior picnic added more pressure for me to find a girlfriend. Looking back during those years of my life, I’ve never been such a complete fool; stupid and ignorant in my own ways. I tried so hard to get the girls! I was so insane of wanting to get a girlfriend so bad that I was willing to put myself at the hands of others to tell me and show me how to get a girlfriend! I talked and dressed in ways that till this very day I’m too shameful to think about. Let alone acted in ways that I now know were un-gentleman like. I looked like a goofball wearing those Nike air force one clown shoes and talking the Lil Wayne talk . . . “yeah ya” . . . “what” . . . “okay” . . . !
After high school, I began the slow and painful process of reversing my old lifestyle. Instead of getting me those Jordan’s or Converse I traded them for loafers and casual men dress shoes. I switched out my old threads and replaced them with new ones from Banana Republic, Gap, and Ralph Lauren (to name a few). And if you can guess correctly, on the outside I was starting to look like a real man, a gentleman, but I still have to act and behave like one. So for about two year I tried to learn everything I could to become a gentleman. I read books, got advice from wise old men (many of them from the 1940s and the baby boomers). I even watched those old movies on Tuner Classic Movies. Men like Humphrey Bogart, Bob Hope, and Henry Fonda intrigued me. Well, I learned from my past and I can proudly say that I have change mentally, morally, physically, and spirituality.
The problem facing me today is finding a woman who’s more like me. One who hasn’t dated, hasn’t kissed, and hasn’t had sex. One who hasn’t fooled around, one who is “clean”, that’s the type of woman I want! Not only that, but a woman who is a woman and not a little girl just as I would consider myself as a little boy during my middle and high school years and later to be transformed into a man. Throughout my years after high school, the great majority of human females that I’ve encounter at my college campus are little girls. Little girls who dress like hipsters or trashy and ask, “Why won’t a man commit to me?” Little girls who wear pants with words on them like “juicy” and ask “Why won’t men respect me?” Let alone these little girls even act like little girls! Always whining and complaining and bitching all the time about how bad they have it in life! If I can only slap some sense into these girls just as George Peppard did to Audrey Hepburn during the taxi ending scene in Breakfast at Tiffany’s.
Sadly, in the society we live in today it’s very rare for a man like me to find a great and beautiful and magnificent woman. When will I ever meet a gorgeous well mattered and well dressed woman like Elizabeth Taylor or come across a fiery rose like Maria Felix of Mexico or a charming and charismatic woman like Greta Garbo from the movie Ninotchka? Geeze at times I feel like Pygmalion, the sculptor from Greek Mythology. From ivory, he carved out a statue of a woman and prayed for her to be alive. He prayed and prayed until the Goddess Aphrodite heard his prayers and made the ivory statue come to life before his eyes and very shortly both married. If only finding a woman were that easy; knowing that you can find a woman with all the qualities you want and have hoped for in her.
Before discovering this blog, Private Man, I talked to my friends and the wise old men about my situation. First of all, I find all my friends (males and females) advice discoursing and at most time (although I don’t tell them) quite useless. I get comments like, “It’s possible to find the type of girl you’re looking for, but as long as were being honest to each other, I doubt that you will find one” and “Dude she probably already kissed a guy by now . . . and probably his penis!” As for the wise old men, they sympathize with my situation. They tell me stories about how dating was back then. The days were a man actually pickup their date at her house instead of honking the horn waiting inside a parked car on the curb of her house. The days were women dressed appropriately and not loose and slutty. I talked to one brilliant and remarkable man who told me I was a lonely Winston Churchill. He explained that in late August on the eve of war, Churchill tried to rally Britain and the British people to take action and to prepare for the worst and no one listen. “Take the day off, no need to worry about Hitler”, the signs read all across the country until Poland was invaded. The people of Britain, with their grim faces, now knew the warning Churchill had earlier bestow upon them. A lonely Churchill knew what was coming.
So what are your thoughts Private Man? What are your words of wisdom about my situations? Aren’t there any women out there for men like me? Will I ever find myself the woman of my dreams?
I search all over your blogs and I couldn’t find anything about virgins and virginity. I respectfully wish that you may please write a blog about these two subjects.
Hi Giovanni. I don’t think you’ll find much advice for virgins, because most gaming websites are about successfully getting sex, which our society is full of now. I DO think it’s unrealistic, mostly, to try and find a girl who hasn’t kissed anyone. But there are those who don’t have sex; as a completely chaste male, you’re a rarity indeed. Are you a Christian? If so, church is the most likely place to find chaste women who respect good men; faith is about the only thing keeping people pure these days. Remember also to emulate the confidence you see in those old movies; men used to be both gentlemen and strongly assertive. Now many fall either to one extreme or the other, sometimes being either arrogant or way too passive.
The bubble is going to be burst by the next statement,
’cause 38% of all Christian marriages end in divorce vs. 50% for the people who don’t identify with any religion.
Church is now a haven for the technical virgins. Relational aggression, lack of slut-shaming and “man up” nonsense makes it all possible.
Faith is the only thing keeping people pure?
How about my arrogance in that I refuse to have sex before marriage, and any woman who has previously had sex before marriage is someone worthless for me build a life with?
If she didn’t respect me enough to keep her legs closed (which really isn’t that hard, men deal with self-restraint all the time), how can I be sure she’s in the marriage for the long haul? Not only that, she is blatantly hypocritical if she thinks turning up to a marriage _in white_ has no significance whatsoever.
Further, I don’t want to have to explain to my children that because Mommy had fun before she met Daddy, they are going to have to deal with a compromised immune system, the possibility of a birth defect later being expressed or an increased vulnerability to certain types of mental illnesses.
P Ray, I’m glad you made those other statements about why it’s a good idea to wait. You’re another rarity, even more so; do you imagine that most of the youth today really considers STD’s with condoms and other protection? People today think we’re demi-gods. Your comment about men practicing self-restraint is by far not the rule today. Also, I don’t know what church you’re attending, but slut-shaming is still pretty big; around many “men” sites, in fact, women are shamed for it but men are praised for promiscuity. Having said this, if I met a true Christian, I would try to forgive one or two sexual indiscretions. This would not extend to has-been players, however.
I imagine most of the youth today (eventhough I am in that cohort) are simply overjoyed that someone has chosen them for the night.
You know, never look a gift horse in the mouth and all that.
Having spent my formative years seeing how people made a hash of their lives by choosing badly or allowing abuse, and then later observing that the walking wounded wanted others to pay for their bad choices through a relationship with a heapin’ helpin’ of shaming language… made me simply say that a person who is a virgin, is most probably headed for disaster if they marry or are involved with someone who isn’t… mainly because the “experienced” person probably has a lot more experience either in giving up on the relationship or moderating their feelings to the extent that what you get isn’t love, it’s a “performance” of love.
Needless to say, pickup artists and fallen women are the ones who have the most problem with my attitude, I wonder why.
Folks, stand back while I administer a much needed red pill. There, there, that’s it.
My advice is:
1. Don’t take advice from any woman who has not taken the red pill and understands the current nature of the dating market, the sexual marketplace, and the marriage marketplace. That would be 99.999999% of women.
2. Work on a solid inner game. That means have a life plan and work on it. What do you want to be when you grow up, so to speak? What is your job or chosen occuration? What are you doing to work toward that goal? What hobbies or other interests do you have? what are you doing to pursue them?
Learn and understand what women find attractive in men. Women do not want NiceGuys ™. DO NOT LISTEN to any woman who says she wants a NiceGuy ™. She wants the following:
b. Social dominance
d. Displays of power
e. A man who is better than she is in some way, be it looks, earning power, social dominance, confidence, or mastery of a skill, profession or trade.
When a woman says “I just want a nice guy who will treat me right”, what she is really saying is “I just want a confident, dominant, powerful alpha who will be nice to me, commit to me, have sex only with me, and treat me right.
3. Jennifer and Kathy are (mostly) red pillers. But I disagree it is realistic to find a virgin female in today’s American sexual marketplace. You need to set your sights lower, and keep your mind open to girls you meet everywhere: on the street, at bars or coffee shops, at the grocery store, through friends of friends, at work.
4. Most women, including Christian women, live in an American culture absolutely saturated in feminism. Women have been completely freed from suffering any consequences for their conduct. They can divorce a husband for any reason or no reason at all and take half a man’s assets and most of his money, especially if they have children together. They can do anything they want, have sex with whomever they want whenever they want and say anything they want anytime they want. And except for the manosphere, in today’s society, feminists have successfully shamed and litigated into silence anyone who dares call them out on it, judge them for it, or suggest that what they are doing is wrong or destructive. There is pushback now in the manosphere and feminism’s evils are being exposed for the lies and destructive forces they are, but feminism and its cohorts still rule the day. There’s a reason why most manosphere bloggers do so using pseudonyms.
5. You probably won’t find a virgin girl in church. When it comes to sex, marriage and dating behavior, there is really no difference between Christian girls and their secular sisters. Christian women are every bit as hypergamous, fickle, flaky and shallow as the unchurched girls I have known since my teenage years 30 years ago.
6. Discard and reject the American media myths of natural female monogamy, female inherent morality and virtue, and pedestalization. Women are just as fallen as men are. They are just as sinful and corruptible as men are. Women are not inherently more moral or virtuous simply because they have vaginas.
7. Learn and understand basic female psychology and evolutionary biology. Learn the female biological imperative to mate with the best men she can find so as to give birth to the strongest children most likely to survive. Hypergamy is designed to fulfill this imperative. It is the female tendency to “marry up” or mate with the best man she can find. This is deeply ingrained and does not disappear merely because a girl is churched. Unmoored from social or moral constraints, a woman will do anything to satisfy this imperative, including marrying a beta to secure his resources, and having sex with alphas to secure their semen for impregnation. This is called cuckoldry and occurs in as many as 30% of births.
Learn the female indicators of interest, or IOIs. Learn about how women’s verbal communication is indirect, ambiguous and confusing. Learn about the female rationalization hamster. Learn about how women default to emotion and feelings for decisionmaking, instead of the usual male reliance on logic and reason.
(This is not female bashing. This is a reasonable and honest appraisal of the world in which we live today and the SMP that Giovanni faces.)
8. In addition to PrivateMan’s unparalleled blog, read the following sites:
singularity2050.com (the misandry bubble)
“And except for the manosphere, in today’s society, feminists have successfully shamed and litigated into silence anyone who dares call them out on it, judge them for it, or suggest that what they are doing is wrong or destructive”
You’ve shown you really haven’t known many good Christian women, Detinn, but they’re out there. I’m glad Giovanni wishes to be a gentleman; the men of the past knew both how to be alpha and loving. This blog is not unparalleled. I recommend Hooking Up Smart over this, frankly, because she offers true advice on female psychology without defaulting to the harmful ideas that women need to be pushed and ruled.
I don’t think PM or other sites like his hold that women must be “pushed” or “ruled”. Your frame is all wrong and I reject it out of hand as false and not based in fact. You are descrbing a domineering man, not a dominant man. There is a dfference. You have much to learn, young Jennifer.
Fact is, in the field, women respond to a man’s dominant frame and conduct. You may object to it, but it works. A man’s dominant frame is not disrespectful or arrogant. It is instead a provision of leadership, security and protection that women crave. A dominant frame means he makes decisions and says if the woman wants to go along, she can. He leads her where he wants her to go and if she goes, fine. And it works.
And it’s biblical too: “Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands as to the Lord.” Eph. 5:22. I won’t get into a theological discussion here, as that is not the purpose of this board. I just wanted to express it in terms you and I both understand, and relate to.
There’s a difference between a man who is dominant and a man who is domineering.
A dominant man takes charge and leads. A domineering man is demanding, arrogant, churlish and unpleasant. A dominant man protects and leads those under his charge. A domineering man cracks the whip, pushes too hard and then complains when things don’t go his way. A dominant man commands respect by his mien and bearing, and his wife and children are safe and secure with him. A domineering man gets no true respect, only superficial submission, and his wife and children secretly hate and fear him behind his back.
It appears to me the manosphere does not advocate for male domineering. It seeks, and celebrates, male dominance.
So much of this comes down to semantics. The connotations of the word “dominant” and all it’s variations simply don’t work given the political correctness surrounding it. Dominant implies submissive and that gets the word and it’s meaning and connotations punted out of the verbal arena. Frankly, the English lacks a solid word for “leading the relationship” that doesn’t contain too many contemporary negative connotations. That’s political correctness. Control the vocabulary, control the debate.
Detinn, I may be young, but I know the difference between dominant and domineering, and what the Bible says and what it doesn’t. There’s nothing wrong with a dominant man, but there are other matters. Your wife and many others like men who dominate them to some level, but I don’t, and you’re actually incorrect about many of these sites; men like Roissy are emotionally domineering and arrogant, in many ugly ways. I don’t really care whether women “want” ugly arrogance in a man or not; we want many things we shouldn’t, like promiscuity and moral freedom, which are not healthy. Fact is, the first four traits you mentioned are universally attractive to women, but some of the things you mention are too strong for others; women differ after those first four traits and so do men, which is why game advice on different sites begins differing in various ways. People even have different feelings and occasionally definitions about what exactly alphas and betas are and do. The fact is that all women who want a man want a strong man, to protect and secure; this is all true. Then when it comes to individual relationships, other details differ from couple to couple.
“A domineering man is demanding, arrogant, churlish and unpleasant.”
Many sites advise that men be arrogant, and unpleasant in rude and selfish behavior; they also claim this works, even for LTR’s. They also claim, inaccurately, that the man should decide everything and leave his wife behind if she doesn’t agree and God forbid she even choose where they want to eat. I agree of course that a man should be decisive and not keep going, “What do YOU want to do?” even if she has no opinion, but some take this a step further and say he should insist on the restaurant even if she doesn’t like it; that’s very demanding. The extent of some of the advice is ridiculous; this is what I was referring to. It can slide easily from reasonable to silly.
And you can have the last word. Your response shows that you do not at all understand what I’m saying.
I do understand what you’re saying, and what the many other gamers say. I just don’t agree with all of it; I’ve absorbed enough to see both the similarities and the differences, and to know that many in the manosphere have very unhealthy views that differ from yours, so I’m wary when I hear about certain things.
OK Jennifer. Whatever you think. Last word.
Fine. It’s clear you don’t understand what I’ve seen and have been trying to express either.
Btw, I hope things are going ok for you. I read your post on Alte’s and have been praying, but it was too late to post anything. Just wanted to let you know.
Thanks Jennifer, but you and I are not going to have that exchange on this board. Please stand down.
I was not attempting to; I wanted you to know others think of you.
I hear you loud and clear detinennui32…
I just wanted to point out the idea that keeps being said about men having no restraint, and only after sex,
is a fallacy that allows people without restraint and only after sex,
to then say “I was tricked! I want my nice guy! I’ll be good, honest!”
I have no intention of believing without medical proof,
the statement that “I’m a good Christian girl and still a virgin”.
When I was at university studying for my Computer Science degree and living in the Halls of Residence,
the Christian girls who said “true love waits”…
were the ones getting into one-night stands.
And any man speaking out about their hypocrisy,
was a misogynist, hater of women who deserved to be relationally aggressed against.
I took the red pill a long time ago, but (and this is only my opinion) I find that most women are not worth getting to know at length. The first few minutes of conversation are usually enough to establish their interest in justice, philosophy and civil rights. In my situation at least, I remember that I’m going to be married to that person for life, so if I can’t have a conversation with them… a lifetime is very long to spend either being silent or in the wrong.
And even the good ones get turned bad by being around the bad ones. I was speaking about my experience earlier “Along the way she might also have a good friend who prays in the church, sings at an old folks’ home and gets drunk and has had 5 boyfriends in 2 years, and who actively thinks the nice guy interested in your daughter is a useless creep who “thinks badly of women and is therefore trying to hurt her”, because he has seen the damage feminism has wrought in the world and on the nice guys who diligently and honourably keep the world running.”…
Cheers for the summary though detinennui32, I’m sure that newcomers to this blog need a primer now and then!
“So much of this comes down to semantics..Frankly, the English lacks a solid word for “leading the relationship” that doesn’t contain too many contemporary negative connotations”
That’s very true, and when it comes to leading in relationships, most women want men to do so; if this is what is meant by comments like “he’ll lead her where he wants her to go”, that is natural in a relationship; the guy usually makes the landmarks. Of course, women lead too in more subtle ways; guys usually make the direct initiatives, while women make the more subtle initiatives of flirting. It’s also important for men to have their own goals, though in this day and age women do as well, and at some point they’ll have to merge; in a LTR, both will need to make decisions concerning their own goals and each others’. The definition of dominance can take a wide spectrum of range, though in many cases, the definition given is far from nebulous.
P Ray, I’m curious about what proof you intend to offer your mate of your own virginity.
Good heavens, Ray, I wasn’t asking you to give ME any proof. Frankly that’s your business and I don’t care to have any. I was asking how you’d give your future mate, whoever she is, proof of your virginity. You demand that she give you proof of hers, because you won’t take her word for it. So, why should she take YOURS for it?
I’m curious that you think every man has sex, held women down, and beat his mama.
I’ll let you know when the latest in genetic technology comes with the proof.
Then I suppose you will want to measure my character?
Or question my degree, or any number of myriad things to disqualify me?
If you’re a conservative, you probably blame men for women’s decisions made in their own free will.
I suppose the same goes if you are a liberal.
It seems the only time women get angry about relationships is when they see how casual sex has somehow damaged them.
And of course, every man out there doesn’t have the stones to keep himself away from women. Ya know, I managed to survive finishing my final year exam with a raging headache, fever, and passing blood in the toilet (and still have the doctor’s assessment to prove it).
I think keeping my unit in my pants, is a lot less effort than that. Like I said, when you’re worth the long haul, you’ll have the marriage. But for me, no sex before marriage. Believe it, men like me exist. And we have standards.
Driving us away (by saying we are oh-so-horrible and liars),
means you are driving women into the hands of players.
Is that part of the “good Christian values” that I also saw exercised in the university?
Who are you addressing, Ray? Because if it’s me, I haven’t the foggiest idea what you’re talking about.
Jennifer, often, women faced with a rebuttal to their ideas say they “haven’t the foggiest idea” what is going on.
Not to worry, the choices you make in life and their consequences will smarten you right-quick.
What you’re saying is absolutely senseless.
“I’m curious that you think every man has sex, held women down, and beat his mama”
What in hell are you talking about? When on earth did I ever IMPLY that? I’ve gone from site to site condemning women who play into the hands of as*holes and promoting the appreciation of good men; I fully expect women to pay for their actions and I’ve clarified this again and again. I know for a fact that there are good virgin men and women; yes, you exist, yay for you. But since you claimed a woman would never be accepted by you without some proof that she’s a virgin, I asked how you expected to offer her similar proof; should it not be mutual? How does my question result in elaborate dodging from you with sudden, irrational accusations that I don’t believe in good men?
One follows the other, unfortunately. And as I told you,
I’ll give you the required research _when I have it_. Did you read that above?
You weren’t planning on dating me by any chance, were you? Or are you planning to set me up with your friends? Amazing, a woman with friends who are also virgins! I commend your restraint.
Otherwise why would I be required to provide you with the evidence that I am a virgin?
Reposting my reply:
Good heavens, Ray, I wasn’t asking you to give ME any proof. Frankly that’s your business and I don’t care to have any. I was asking how you’d give your future mate, whoever she is, proof of your virginity. You demand that she give you proof of hers, because you won’t take her word for it. So, why should she take YOURS for it?
The proof will be provided, when it is asked for.
I didn’t say I was currently looking for a relationship, did I?
Your concern is pretty amazing considering the firsthand relationship devastation you see around you.
Believe it, “true love waits”. So my true love, can wait for me, and I, can wait for the marriage. And have sex after.
That’s how it works, right? Or are you proposing an alternative to that?
I appreciate you offering to give me such technology, but as I clarified above, it’s not necessary.
Speaking of which, though, many times a woman’s hymen will break on its own, so she may not be able to prove it to you anyway. You two may not know until the wedding night; THEN it may be obvious: it should be uncomfy or painful for her, and as for virgin males, sometimes they have very short erections and discomfort of their own.
I appreciate your diligence in wishing to give your lady proof of your own virtue; you are indeed a man of high standards. I just didn’t understand at all the reaction in your first reply! No wonder, my motives seemed muddled.
“Your concern is pretty amazing considering the firsthand relationship devastation you see around you”
That is why I have concern, in fact. I’m not unrealistic; many who have sex once or twice can redeem themselves for marriage. But when it’s all said and done, it’s just better to wait.
Yet another thing to keep in mind I guess.
Oh well, an exhaustive checklist should help, and one needs to know their trust is well placed. I’d think that marriages that come from a relationship built on lies do not last.
Your thoughts on that?
As Ronald Reagan says,
“Trust, but verify” 🙂
“Your thoughts on that?”
Oh, absolutely agree; lies get us nowhere. And sexual preferences must also be discussed (even virgins often know what they do or do not want to try or experience), as well as similar personal matters. It’s important to have everything clarified.
Jen is right..
Good women want good men. Mostly gamers attract sluts who will put out after a couple of dates.. no principles. Like of course attracts like.. 😉
A good Christian girl is the way to go (be careful because THEY aren’t always good either.) One who has been taught good morals by her parents. I have a fifteen year old daughter who is chaste., who hopes to marry and have children (not career oriented) this is the way she has been brought up. It’s the way I was brought up.
I find arrogant bad boy types repulsive.. Always have.
I married a good and strong man. Honest and decent Not a wimp.Not a bad boy.
Still have the tingles for him after fifteen years.
What about arrogant nice guys?
Who think that women who want equality should take responsibility for their choices?
And that women who want chivalry should stand up for the men who are going to be pilloried by the women who want equality without the responsibilities?
The role of relational aggression in minimising opportunities for men to date(through rumour mongering, character assassination and the “creepy loser” keyword), is one of the reasons why leaving your country is a good idea if you are trying for a lasting relationship.
Your daughter will have to fight the rising tide of the money being worth less because of the inflationary pressures placed through welfare and bad debt by the people who also think single motherhood and choices for everyone with no responsibility are a good idea. There will also be peer pressure to participate in events, along with the idea that only a person of the same religion (but not convictions) is good enough for her. Then there’s the materialism and the idea that she has to think the same as her female friends “True friends always agree with one another”.
Along the way she might also have a good friend who prays in the church, sings at an old folks’ home and gets drunk and has had 5 boyfriends in 2 years, and who actively thinks the nice guy interested in your daughter is a useless creep who “thinks badly of women and is therefore trying to hurt her”, because he has seen the damage feminism has wrought in the world and on the nice guys who diligently and honourably keep the world running.
Good luck teaching your child that the friend she makes who while in public makes all the right moves, is a monster in private who delights in the corruption of others. You may even think your daughter is in the wrong or deserves to have some of that “fun”. Hope things turn out okay.
“Who think that women who want equality should take responsibility for their choices?”
Kathy and I both believe in men like that, and there’s nothing arrogant about those men whatsoever; the arrogant men I’ve found believe that they should run everything in the relationship.
“And that women who want chivalry should stand up for the men who are going to be pilloried by the women who want equality without the responsibilities?”
The women I know who want chivalry also do this. I love gentlemen, and ask for no favors, simply mutual respect.
So i was reading one of your posts about women and their “i deserve complexe”
then i came accross this story
I dated a girl who had a necklace with a charm that read “princess” on it. She said she’d been called princess her whole life and it had just kinda stuck. She used the term princess like she was talking in third person too. It wasn’t a very long relationship but early on in it, while we were hooking up, I tried to get her to give me a blowjob. She responded by saying “Princesses don’t give blowjobs” with a straight face. I asked her if she was joking and she looked at me like she didn’t understand the question. Fucking nutjob.
thought it was fitting
by the way i just started a blog… tell me what you think, criticism advice, since you’ve been doing it a while now i figure you have hidden wisdom on blogging
This is full of hamster richness. I got an e-mail to my account from eHarmony with the usual links to 6 ways to rev up your whatever. They also sent this one about a lady wondering why she’s 14 years past divorce and mid forties, still single. The responses are golden and clueless. Enjoy.
Just wanted to send a link to our site where we’ve posted daily interviews with men on the topic of love and relationships for the past year and a half:
Really Are feminists that fucken dumb? You have to watch the video on the page to truly get a grip on how ridiculous feminists can be.
While I in no way, shape or form condone rape for any reason, leave it to the feminists to turn it into an abstract cause and make everyone’s lives and jobs a little bit harder. Had the cops done nothing, we would have heard them screaming from the rooftops that the police were at fault because the “boys club” of the police department believes women bring it on themselves by the way they dress. Can anyone tell me a win situation here?
If a cop comes up to me and says, “Hey, you might want to reconsider wearing boxer shorts… There is a maniac out there hunting guys wearing boxer shorts.” The last thing that I would ever consider is that he/she is treating me in a way that is biased to my sexuality. The cops were doing the only thing they could to protect women from this assailant until he could be caught… Take the common trait he desired out of the equation. Holy crap! That actually makes sense! lol
Leave it to the feminists to stand on their soapbox and cry foul when (god forbid) the police are trying to look out for their best interests.
They weren’t sensitive enough? Seriously, how rude could someone (from the police) be in explaining that if you’re wearing a mini skirt in this area, it might get you killed.
Feminists everywhere… Thank you for acting like complete morons!
I’m a 48-yr old woman, and I find your articles really interesting! I recently started a profile but I don’t really have anything on it, except my picture, age, location, etc. I really don’t want to put a lot of information, as it feels strange, and I’m a single parent. What would be the minimum information that you think would be necessary? And how soon before I should provide my phone # or email?
I’d give a brief introduction of your vital stats and then state what you feel you have to offer a man. Then don’t say anything else.
In my opinion, women do a few things wrong with their profiles, the most significant being giving us a lot of information we just don’t need. Plus you increase the chance of producing a dealbreaker with every word you write. So keep it short, to the point, and elegant, while being playful and flirtatious.
For goddess sake DON’T say that you are funny, fun to be with, good sense of humor, you love to travel, you like the beach, you’re devoted to your children and like football. Because that’s what every other woman writes about herself. Be intriguing, be alluring, be flirty, and don’t be afraid to throw a little (but just a little) sexual innuendo into your profile.
It’s an art.
Understated wit also draws me in. It usually tells me that the woman doesn’t think of herself too seriously. SO much better than, “I’m sarcastic.”
I can not find the “vasectomy story”. I would like to read it (got my own vasectomy story). Please give me the title to the post.
TPM-you are obviously a first rate thinker, on a scale with Einstein, Oppenheimer and a loto o other ultra-smart guys. I think we should develop a formula, much like e=mc2 (ok we might not be quit as good). I read there is a branch of science that says the enitre universe and all knowledge can be reduced to chemistry and physics. I propose that male/female attractiveness can be reduced thusly; male to female=looks; female to male=looks + $. Thus we see that the male is relatively straight forward; the female more complicated (this demonstrates the internal validity of our model). We can use 2 examples, both related to Kennedy’s. Rose Kennedy was in her 70s when I first saw her, and never looked a day younger in her entire life, a miserable hag of a bitch if God ever created one. Despite her wealth, I’d as soon eat a bowling ball as go down on her disgusting Brillo pad of a twat patch. Jackie Onassis married Aristotle; he looked like a tumor, and a particluary malignant variety at that.Jackie wasn’t in her youthful prime, but she was still prime real estate. Cold blooded $ transaction;if he had been an impecunious taxi driver she wouldn’t have allowed him to sniff her used toilet paper.Anyway, you get the concept: m-f=looks; f-m=looks + $. It needs work but I think we got something. p s With women, the more of one you have the less of the other you need. Kinda’ like the old joke about life being a shit sandwich and the more bread you have the less shit you have to eat, only in reverse-the more bread you have the more “shit” (pussy) you GET to eat.
Thanks Munson. You know, for an educated fellow with a few decades under your belt, you’ve got the fine ability to craft some excellent phrases with sufficient expletives. The visual imagery of Rose Kennedy’s “brillo pad of a twat patch” made me choke on my cheap beer. Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Your idea of a mathematical formula is excellent.
By the way, have you thought about starting a blog and joining the Manosphere? Your legal expertise could be a valuable addition to the evil patriarchy. Check out my blog roll on that.
Spread the word.
I think it would have to be a more sophisticated formula, myself. for women, it’s (Looks) + (Sexual Availability) – (Maintenance Fees) * (Batshit Crazy Quotant [BCQ] where 1.0 is Utterly Sane and 0.0 is Utterly Crazy).
At least that’s a place to start.
For men, it’s .5(Looks) + (Income) + (Charisma), or something like that.
Good points Ian & TPM! As for my own blog, I have very very poor computer skills. It takes me a while to even get to this site. I do not even know what a “blog roll” is (it sounds unappetizing, but not as unappetizing as Rose’s (now putirfied) cunt (in fact, putrefaction might even be an improvement as it would lessen the veneral secretions from that foul pudenda, a pudenda that no self-respecting sewer rat deign to munch on). No, I am a pathetic and useless old man; I hit one of those blue things and got over onto some site with these chicks, one of whom was ref’d anonymously in that Atlantic Monthly article. i was going to rant some seriously sick stuff to her (is it legal-you’d think I’d know; sure u want me to legal out here?), but now I can’t find it. I’d love to provide “legal information” (gotta’ be careful-don’ wan’ no malpractice dog (ebonics)) and I’d love to write here. How do I find most recent stuff? I’d love to be Manosphere. BTW whenever you see a Brillo pad from now on, especially a used one with some brown rust, you’re gonna’ think of ol’ Rosie! “Cracklin’ Rosie get on board…”
I wanted to see if Rivelino got my latest. How do I get him/there?
PM-check out my latest at HUS. it’s touchingly sweet and romantic in a boyish way.
Email at the top isn’t working, so posting here. Thought you’d be interested in this mangina’s latest. I think he’s just being overly sensitive…
I am posting my profile with a lot of trepidation, I came across this blog purely by accident when looking for help on wrting a dating profile. It’s below, I am preparing myself for comments of all kinds. (The vitals you can’s see on it are that I am 40yrs old, no children)..
I am easy going and I enjoy life. Whilst I don’t take myself too seriously I do consider myself articulate, considerate, faithful, fun loving and very very modest!! Oh, and I love to laugh.
My two big dogs keep me very busy and I spend a lot of time looking after, grooming and walking them. I used to show one of them but he has since retired and now lives a charmed life of luxury. I send the other two out to earn a living!
Most of my family and friends live near me, I enjoy being with them, any occasion can be cause for a celebration!
I enjoy good food, wine and intelligent conversation. I sometimes cook good food when the mood takes me – to date nobody has died as a result of my cooking. After declaring my love of food & wine it seems appropriate to state that I am not a skinny person! I am size 16, I consider myself attractive and am very comfortable in my own skin.
Although I prefer to be outdoors with my dogs, when the weather is bad or I’m feeling lazy am very happy to relax and watch television. My tastes are very diverse and have many things on series link, some I probably wouldn’t admit to in public. I Love watching movies, but am a fan of the pause button as sometimes like to discuss the thickening plot, but seldom need help understanding it!
My dislikes are very few, I have no love for pineapple and dislike the end of a good night.
1. Easy-going and enjoy life — boilerplate
2. Love to laugh — DEFINITELY boilerplate
3. Fun-loving — ugh
4. Any reference to family and friends — aaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!
5. Consider myself attractive
6. Reference to your size
(5) and (6) are for the man to decide, so don’t mention them. Best to circulate your face and full body shot to men you know and trust, and to photo-rating sites for something more anonymous. Take the data, learn from it, then come up with some realistic expectations. If you appear fat or obese, make no demands. Size 16 is plus-size, so you have to make some major adjustments. Lose some weight. Compensate for it with a pleasing personality if necessary. Also factor in your age and make adjustments.
Some use of understated wit will be good for conveying that you don’t take yourself too seriously and that you’re modest. No real need to state it outright.
Minimize mentioning how much time you spend with your dogs. To some men, this comes across as “cat/dog lady whose eggs have passed their expiration date/she spends to much time on the dogs so she’ll have no time for me.” I like the humorous references, though.
Good humor with the food reference, but also state how you can cook a good meal for a man to show your appreciation for him. Remember, this is about what you bring to the table in a relationship.
Good that you have some specific TV interests, but why not mention how you’d like to curl up with your man to watch something entertaining or mood-inducing?
Just my thoughts.
PM, forgive me if you already posted on this, but I’m curious to know how the ‘teaching’ night went at the wine shop you mentioned a few months back.
Everything has been postponed because of my very recent change to a new full-time position. It looks like I’ll be doing a class for women before I do one for men. Stay tuned.
Marketing to my wheelhouse.
I have just had the
“That email address is associated with an existing WordPress.com (or Gravatar.com) account. Please click the back button in your browser and then log in to use it.”
message. In fact here and at Heartiste. I have multiple email addresses because my MRA interests are not to be linked with other issues I read on – I do NOT want to be logging in and out according to what site I’m on (on a tab per tab basis, in fact). Do you have any say on your site’s operation?
p.s. I found
From that link
“It seems the new commenting system is (1) not letting people know they have to log in BEFORE they write their comments (2) losing their comments once they get the message they have to log in. I’ve experienced the frustration first hand having tried to comment on someone elses blog with my WP id only to lose my comment. People are not prepared (or unable) to remember old passwords from long forgotten WP accounts. Also, logging in with old, unused WP accounts appears in some cases to have meant they are not linked to their current blogs.”
thirdly, this doesn’t solve my issue of not wanting to effing log in to wordpress, but might solve for others the method of logging in for gravatar accounts (via the ‘W’ for wordpress login, I guess)
“WordPress.com and Gravatar.com accounts are the same thing. Accounts for each service work on the other. So if you’ve only ever used Gravatar, you can log into WordPress.com using your Gravatar account (and vice versa) to post using your registered email address.”
Game – it works. Though no way in hell would I have married this chick. Look how she responds when he starts accidentally using some game.
I hope Roissy gets this one. I could fisk it soundly but I suspect someone else will get to it first.
There are so many elements of Charisma in that story… amazing.
She stopped communication with him because he was too nice… stunningly honest for her to say it.
Curious about your thoughts here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charli-penn/the-provider-the-rock-you_b_1373274.html?ref=tw. The author runs manwifeanddog.com and unlike many of the others you’ve quoted, she seems to be pretty ok. Wondered if you knew of her blog.
I’ll be checking it out.
Its like you read my mind! You appear to know so much about this, like you wrote the book in it or something. I think that you could do with some pics to drive the message home a little bit, but other than that, this is magnificent blog. An excellent read. I will certainly be back.
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Can someone explain to me how it is I continually get flaked on, even after a relatively successful first date (good conversation flow, keno, kissing)?
Saturday night’s meet up is looking like another example of that. She’s an age adjusted 9 (41 year old super fit yoga instructor), very chatty, not a complete idiot, very forward (initiated all physical contact, and was almost too complimentary to me), and seemingly down to earth. I was my usual gregarious self, never told her how pretty she is (and she commented on that in a positive way that night), and only told one bad blowjob joke…..I will give my performance that evening a solid 8.
We made plans to meet up on Monday to walk the dog, but she canceled on Sunday. I didn’t respond to her text (here we go again!). She did send a follow up on tuesday suggesting we get to together Thursday (tomorrow). Thats a good sign, but I met her via Ok Cupid, and she is constantly online. My guess is that she’s seriously playing the field, and there might even be a distinct chance that she is going to cancel on me tomorrow.
Question being….Is there any strategy that I can employ tomorrow night should we ge together after all? Should I be more aloof? I know for sure that I can’t afford to let her attractiveness get the better of me. Thing is, she will be in her yoga outfit. Boy, does she look good in those pants.
Do I need help, or am I maintaining a good frame about this?
Flaking and dating go together like meat and potatoes. Unless you’re a top-tier guy (looks, status, fame, etc.), the dames, they do be flaking. It’s frustrating but damned near impossible to stop.
In this situation you’re dealing with a yoga woman. I know these types and they’re always busy, always doing something. Until you’re a known entity and she’s definitely attracted, any other distraction will result in a cancellation. Don’t take it personally.
Now, as to her perception of the date you had, you obviously did pretty well because she countered after she cancelled. Your lack of response to the initial cancellation got her hamster spinning faster and she spent a couple of days mulling over why you didn’t respond because “all the guys respond, why didn’t he?”. She knows she’s attractive because of her full OKCupid in-box. Your lack of complimenting her got that hamster started, by the way. Good one.
I am going to suggest an interesting maneuver at this point. YOU cancel tomorrow. You also immediately counter with another time. Make sure you apologize in your cancellation: “I’m sorry, something important has come up and I have to cancel tomorrow, will Friday [or another time] work?” Look, you’re a busy guy with lots of options, maintain that frame! Yeah, she’s attractive and pleasant but you simply can’t let that upset your frame. She’s used to guys fawning all over her, willing to grovel just for the chance to ogle her yoga pants. She alluded to that because she mentioned you didn’t compliment her looks. You’re not the grovelling type and she must know this. Yes, I know this maneuver runs the risk of her completely bailing. See my last paragraph.
A note about her being online all the time – OKCupid has a mobile app and that might be running in the background of her smartphone. So don’t think she’s actually paying attention to OKCupid. Sure, she’s probably checking out profiles and corresponding with other guys, but it’s not likely that she’s totally consumed with OKCupid.
By the way, if you’re not actively corresponding with at least three other women via online dating, I’m coming over there with my dog and she’s going to bite your ass.
ThePrivateMan has it absolutely right.
If you feel bad about getting to know other women while going out with this one, remember this:
“You are not in a relationship with her, unless both you and her agree to each other that you are, tell others, and act like it in public”.
Repeat that to yourself until it becomes a part of your psyche.
She is not seeing you to the exclusion of all others;
so why do you feel the need for the kind of loyalty of a relationship (and does SHE know you think you are in a relationship with her?)
I’d definitely say that until she has made it clear you are in a relationship with her, and is ready to bear the burden of being loyal to you …
let her enjoy life – while you enjoy getting to meet other women too. 🙂
And keep this in mind – she’s 41. What was stopping her from meeting a nice guy like you previously?
Thanks to PRay and Privateman for excellent replies.
PRay: All I can say is….Wow. It does seem as if I feel she owes me some kind of loyalty. Why do I care if she’s chatting up other cats on OKC? I’m doing the exact same thing, and I don’t hesitate to flirt with women any chance I get. Duh. And to your othe excellent point about her being 41: she has never been married and has no children. A great plus for her….but…why? She’s either a total whore, or she’s bat shit crazy.
Privateman: My first thought was to cancel on her, but upon further reflectin, I’ve realized it’s logistically impossible. I own a local eatery, and we made plans for after she knows I’m closed, plus, I’m meeting her at her yoga studio. It’s right down the street from my condo and I walk the dog by there every day. I’m stuck, but to hell with it. I’m just going to have good time. I bet we even end up drinking at some patio in the neighborhood. To quote Mike Damone from Fast Times at Rudgemont High : “I act like I don’t care if she comes, stays, lays, or prays. My toe’s gonna be tappin all the while.”
“She’s either a total whore, or she’s bat shit crazy”
Talk about hamster shit! And the droppings keep on coming. Yes, cancel on HER next.
I SHOULD HAVE FUCKING CANCELLED.
I honestly cannot understand what happened last night, or better yet, what didn’t.
It was raining, so we had to eighty six our dog walking plan. She contacted me initially with a contingency plan to have a bottle of wine in a girlish type cafe. Conversation and shitty wine flowed (I should have picked it, but I’m a scotch guy anyway), and she kept saying things about me that we’re completely false. It was as if she’d conjured up an image of me that did not exist. Dropping terms like “manic”, and “pleaser”….. I think she was either projecting her own self image, or convincing herself that I am not the gregarious, well spoken man that I really am. It was positively cloying, and my objections fell upon deaf ears. It was as if she was going out of her way to dehumanize me. How was I Mr Fucking Awesome on Saturday, and a doormat the following Thursday?
Now, the conversation was mostly pleasant on the surface. She dropped her usual compliments about my writing skills, but they were followed by subtle digs about my personality. And, of course I got the obligatory fake hug at the end.
I know what you must be thinking. I had to have shown some overt beta characteristics, but aside from smiling a lot (I always smile. I can’t help it), agreeing with her on some topics (because I honestly did), and being generally polite (because it was our second date), I honestly did not. No compliments, no supplication, just general courtesy.
This one really gets under my skin. Somewhere along the line she shit tested me, and as Convoluted as her thought process is, I failed.
You failed in two ways:
1. She had to make the contingency plan. In early dates, the man makes the plans. Note to all guys – if an outdoor date, check the weather and have back up options.
2. Her remarks about your character (even if false because she was projecting) were met by your objections. This is where some agree and amplify would have been appropriate, even it would stick in your craw a bit.
Yeah, the smiling might have had an impact, too. I’m just like you in that I’m generally smiling and gregarious. I have to dial it back sometimes.
Back to my original point when you first presented this scenario – this woman is attractive and she knows it. She knows she can exercise dating options so she will be even more outrageously picky and looking for the slightest reason to reject a guy. Actually, most women do this…
Also, women are driven by their moods and emotions which change a great deal.
Finally, if she’s actively dating other guys, she might have found one that she is more attracted to and this second date with you was a way for her to eliminate you as an option.
Yeah, this one was major suckage but you should have options because you’re always corresponding online with new prospects, right?
Postscript – I just caught the bit in your first comment that she’s 41, never married, no kids, and a dog. She’s also so into yoga that she has her own studio? Batshit crazy. Bullet, dodged.
Her remarks about your character (even if false because she was projecting) were met by your objections.
I agree with PM completely, this was a major shit-test. Agree and amplify would be an entirely appropriate response but I’ve also used a pull-back with some success.
It’s a withdrawal of interest and approval that, if calibrated right, can make the hamster punch the hyperdrive. It involves a slight pull-back of the head or body, a slight squinting of the eyes, and a faint head-tilt to one side accompanied by “are you serious?” This can only be used on a fairly obvious character slur, but your note about her calling you “manic” or a “pleaser” would qualify, I think. It’s a move that has to be combined with strong outcome-independence; if she reacts badly, you have to be prepared to walk, which is a strong frame and move in itself.
You need to put her back on her heels a bit. It’s an over-head lob at her baseline. She’ll either escalate (unlikely) or back-track and qualify herself to you.
I don’t know if others use this, but the reaction and body movement comes natural to me, so I’ve incorporated as a response. You do also need to be very aware of the underlying cues and dynamics of the interaction to know when to pull the pin on this one.
Having read her profile I immediately picked up on this:
It’s refreshing to meet someone who isn’t trying to please, and is okay being the dissenter, and isn’t rigid.
I think she’s clearly begging for an alpha who will take charge (and perhaps tie her up at some point…). A long shot, but if you’d recalled this, a great response would have been “I’m dissent to being called a pleaser”.
I did catch a strong crazy vibe, to be sure. I just thought I had a chance to score some yoga pussy. Sigh.
Ahhh….Agree and amplify should have been the order of the day. Instead, I went with logic (“you’ve known me for six hours”, etc) which is an impossible task with women.
Agreed on your point about her looking for a reason to move on to the next chump. I knew it all along (hence my earlier concerns about her being on that site constantly).
And I am definitely pursuing and chatting up numerous women on that infernal site, but am having more luck in person this month. Being a restaurant owner puts me into contact with all sorts of women, plus I get recognized when I’m out on the town. That’s where my demeanor comes in. I treat these new women as customers at first, which is the key problem in my game. It’s also the hardest habit to kick.
Just for fun: http://www.okcupid.com/profile/laf1787 (her profile)
http://www.okcupid.com/profile (and mine)
I agree with both statements. Some mystery and intrigue is required and outgoing gregariousness is the exact opposite to this.
Sailor, I know exactly what you mean by pulling back, and that was my exact body language when she said both of those things. Fact is, I was in complete shock that she would characterize me in that manner. I did nada, zilch, bubkis to supplicate myself to her. Okay, maybe I smiled and agreed with a few of her premises, but this one literally would not stop talking. I really didn’t have a lot of time to screw it up by talking too much.
Another interesting note about her character….she picked up and moved out on her boyfriend of four years and moved to Ohio in the middle of the night. Thing is, she says he is the greatest guy she has ever known and is still close to him.
And she calls ME manic.
Projection, shit testing, constant talking, no kids, never married, sudden breakup and major relocation…
Yeah… batshit crazy…
Again… bullet, dodged.
The hotter the dame, the lower the standards for good mental health. Shit, gonna tweet that.
PM is right. Bullet, dodged.
The thing about the pull-back is that when you pull the pin, it has to be chilly, maybe even slightly menacing, depending on the severity of the slur. You have to stop her talking with your eyes. If she just prattles on, it didn’t work, and, the pin being pulled, release the spoon and drop the grenade by standing up and walking out with a nonchalant “okay, see ya.” Back-turn and don’t look back…
It’s all a process, Jon. Men learn from their errors and move on. Good luck.
I’ve wanted to get this off my chest and into the “Manosphere” for quite some time now, so here goes.
My sister is the “Feminist’s Dream.”
Just a little back story so you can understand this all in context. I am the only child of my parents who are still happily married (I’m 30), but they both had children of their own from previous marriages. Of my 3 older half sisters, my Father had 2 of them. He is the one who is more important to this story as his daughter is the “Feminist’s Dream”. I think it’s pertinent that I tell you a little about him.
My Dad is the type of man who is friendly, outgoing, extremely funny, very charismatic, and always the life of the party. He’s a man that once offered to come pick me up when my car broke down 8 hours away while on my way home from college. He’s a man that is rarely expressive with words like “I love you”, but very expressive in actions. For instance, he never missed a game I played in, ever, not even when I went to college and regularly played 6 hours or more (driving time) from home. He’s also the type of man that NEVER calls you. I’ve been away from home for the last 10 years and he’s called me once (when my Grandmother died). He’s not perfect, but he’s a great father and I’ve never once had to question whether he loved me or not. That’s a pretty cool feeling to have in this day and age.
Now, on to my Sister. I want to preface this by saying that I love her and truly think she is a great person. She is an incredibly smart, driven, and impressive woman, but one that in my eyes has followed the wrong path. Why? Well, here is why I believe her to be the “Feminist’s Dream.”
Upon graduating high school with honors, she attended a very prestigious Northeast school for her undergrad (paid for it herself, working full time and some small loans). After that, she attended medical school and took up a residency in a large metropolitan city. By all accounts and measures, she followed the feminist career path of being an “independent and strong” career woman who will setlle down when the time is right and not because of that silly little biological clock.
Well, I guess you know what happened next? She made it to her mid 30’s and still hadn’t found a man. Most women would give up at this point, but not my sister. She decided around the age of 37 to go to a sperm bank and pick out a winner. I don’t remember all the details but the donor went to Georgia Tech. Go Yellow Jackets!
After a year or so of no success, she ended up having to go to the same fertility doctor that helped Julia Roberts get knocked up. Go sis! Her mindset in all of this was, “I want to have kids and I just can’t wait any longer, if Mr. Right is out there, he’ll join my family, if not, I’ll still have kids.”
Her treatments were finally a success and she ended up having twins, a boy and a girl. A little while after having the kids, one of her friends convinced her to go on Match.com and she ended up meeting the kids surrogate father. Let’s just call him Bill. Go sis!
Bill is a solid dude. He was a divorced, father of two, that would do ANYTHING for his kids. His ex wife was kind of a bitch and in hindsight I know why, he’s a beta to the core. He’s a man that could build you a house from scratch, fix your engine, redo your kitchen, wax poetic about many intellectual topics, but one thing he couldn’t do is stand up to a woman, my sister included.
My sister is a tough broad and for the 6 years or so of their relationship, she definitely wore the pants. Whenever he did attempt to reign in my bratty niece and nephew’s ways, my sister quickly reprimanded him. She was the queen, he was too afraid to challenge that. They fought for many reasons, but from what I gather, they fought mostly over the disciplining of the kids and how my sister spoiled them rotten. They have a basement full of toys and my sister constantly bought them crap they didn’t need, which ate the more sensible/frugal Bill alive.
I think it’s also fair to mention that my sister made more money than him and he moved into her house, with “her” kids. She makes at least $150k a year and he’s around $90-100k a year. Finances were also an issue, as my sister was upset that he wasn’t contributing more towards the mortgage. Mind you, he was helping raise “her” kids in every conceivable way, was putting his 2 kids through college, and paying for his old apartment- just so his kids had somewhere to stay when they came home from college in the summer.
All of these issues eventually boiled over and Bill moved out. At first, she still gave him visitation rights (he treated the kids like his own), but that quickly ended. He really loved/loves those kids. How do I know that? Well, he also developed quite a relationship with my parents, my Father especially, and that continues to this day (they’ve been broken up for 2 years or so). In fact, he renovated my parents bathroom, kitchen, and drove down 2 hours on Thanksgiving morning to help me rake my parents yard.
I’m telling you this now, you couldn’t find a better father/husband if you tried. Of course, my sister lives by the “never settle” mantra. Why settle when you can royally screw your progeny up for years to come? The kids, now 8 years old, have told both of my parents that they miss Bill when visiting them (his picture is on my parent’s refrigerator). It’ nothing short of tragic.
My sister, who I barely speak to anymore, broached the topic of Bill with me last time I was home. She told me that they’re her kids and she didn’t want him associating with them anymore. As I was about to voice my displeasure with her viewpoint, one of the kids came trouncing into the room and the conversation was over. Maybe I should reach out to her, but I don’t know what good it will do.
I understand that my Sister is the product of a divorce, I understand that she really felt hurt that our Dad NEVER called her when she was away at college or at medical school, I understand that she maybe needed a few “I love you’s” from him, I understand that relationships are hard…I just don’t understand how you can be so selfish as to keep a perfectly good man/role model away from your children?
My sister may be the “Feminist Dream”, but she’s raising kids that will most likely grow to be everyone else’s nightmare.
I have a question.
I have a very small penis. How do I compensate for that. I REALLY want a gf, but fell lIke I’ll be rejected for my equipment.
Any advice? Thank you so much PM.
Buy more guns.
I am new to your site; I found it through RooshV a few months ago…the red pill is still dissolving in my guts.
I have a question about dealing with a girl who I believe is into me. I work as a contractor overseas and am usually out of the country for 2-3 months at a time. She found out about my work through a friend as well as the fact that I can’t disclose what exactly it is that I do or where I do it (it’s not as sexy as it sounds, believe me). My buddy sees her regularly (she’s a bartender) and his assessment, which I trust, is that this mystery is drawing her in.
She loaned me a book before right before I left for my last trip (we have similar academic interests) and I was reading it during a layover in Europe when a small piece of paper fell out. On it was written “Enjoy the book and have a safe trip!” heart heart, and her email.
I emailed her several weeks later to thank her for letting he use her book and that I was enjoying it. She emailed back with details about the studies in Italy she was doing at the time. I replied with a sincere question about the institution she was studying at and received no response for a month.
A few days ago I received an email from her apologizing for her lack of reply and saying she had no excuse (no hamster readily apparent but I am still untrained), she felt like a jerk and when will I be coming back? Having discovering game since then, I simply replied “Two weeks…you jerk.” Nearly an instant later another reply: “I’m not a jerk!!! but am heavily intoxicated right now…” I haven’t replied.
What is your assessment and recommended course of action? Email and suggest drinks upon my return (less than a week from now)? Occam’s razor and game tenets indicate that since she only put her email address in the book, she’s not interested in meeting, simply getting her book back. But my aforementioned friend’s field reports indicate she may be interested. I just don’t want to get drawn into a protracted email exchange.
Any wisdom you could impart would be much appreciated.
I might turn this into a post, stay tuned. In the meantime, wait a day or so before returning the email. Mention nothing of the jerk stuff. Don’t suggest anything, state it. “I’ll be back on [day] and we’re going to have drinks. I’ll contact you beforehand with the juicy details” Asking and suggesting aren’t bold enough and the dames, well, they like some boldness in a man. Also, using a vaguely suggestive adjective like “juicy” plants a seed in her mind. She’ll glom on to that word, just you see. And those drinks? Make it a juice bar to complete the verbal circle.
Will do, and will report. I appreciate the prompt reply.
I agree with TPM and concur on his suggested course of action. She put the note with the email address in the book because she wanted you to contact her. You played the “jerk” comment well. As for the gap in her communication, she may have just been busy (I take it she was studying in Italy), but more likely she had another guy on the line.
Thanks for your compliment, and your insight. It’s amazing that just a few months ago I would’ve taken it personally that she may have another dick on deck (or in the batter’s box) but now I just chalk it up to TWTA (The Way Things Are) and continue the mission. The efficacy of taking the red pill in your 30s is something to be reckoned with.
I just turned 40 and although I have had a lot of experience with women (been married, LTR’s etc) I feel like I have not been as successful as I could be.
I have been really self conscious of my age. Like most men,I’m attracted to very young women. Once in a while I see a couple where the guy appears much older and some people have suggested I could pull some younger girls. I did make out with a 20 year old last year.
What is your take on younger women?
THanks for your insight!
There is nothing wrong with younger women. If you have the Charisma to woo them, go for it. However, don’t do online dating for that. Your “in real life” Charisma must shine. The problem with younger women is the maturity levels. Many are either careerists or party girls. When they hit their late 20s the baby rabies usually kicks in and they start looking for provider types. A lot of this depends on your relationship goals.
Somebody else believes in charisma, have you seen this site? http://www.thefemininewoman.com/2010/01/how-to-be-a-goddess-part-2/
Can you share your thoughts on sites like Ashley Madison and AFF? Rip-off? Useful?
I have no experience with either of those websites. I don’t even know anyone who has used those websites. Perhaps my readers can chime in on this one.
I only recently found your website and I must say, it is really refreshing to read guys opinions on dating/understanding women etc – world only knows how many similar articles there are by women on how to understand men. Let me just mention to you that I, for one, am the person, who doesn’t believe in dating rules. I believe in being yourself and natural. I am not here for looking for the dating advice, as I’m not ready for this kind of thing – not yet anyway. But what I would like to ask you is to point me out to an article that would talk about widows- meaning, what do you think one should talk about to another, when there’s been 2 years of an awful black hole of recovery and when you have spent lovely and respectful years with your partner. I know that at this stage, having the near perfect relationship (yes near to perfect and yes, there have been disagreement as anyone would in a normal relationship), the requirements get higher. Partly because now I know what makes me happy and know what made/ did not make him happy. If you have something you wrote down before or would be interested in investigating it, it would be great. It would be nice to see what guys/men think of that or how have you/they come out it.
Thanks for bringing up this issue. I’ve turned it into a blog post and I’m sure you’ve noticed.
Thankyou for your insightful and helpful articles about online dating. I wondered why I wasn’t having much success even though I had nice photos. I realized my profile was maybe not projecting a happy, fun vibe and maybe even hinting at some bitterness. It’s now been edited and I look forward to dating again in 2013 🙂
So i have a question, but i’m worried i’ll get ‘laughed off the blog’, lol….
hmm, but as the proverb says ‘he who asks the question is a fool for 5 minutes: he who doesn’t ask, is a fool for life..”, so at the risk of looking stupid(!): what exactly is ‘the red pill’?
i get that it’s a terminology and not an *actual* pill(!) but what does it mean? -i haven’t heard it before but see it a LOT throughout your blog….is it an ‘American thing’ or am i just being incredibly thick?
Not a bad question. The Red Pill is a metaphor using a term borrowed from the film “The Matrix” that roughly equals being shown or realizing truth that has been purposely hidden from you in a way that changes the way you look at the world.
If you haven’t seen the film, then I’m sure it would be a meaningless term. In the film, a character living his whole life in a computer simulation is offered a choice by a mysterious stranger. He’s given a choice to take a blue pill or a red pill: the blue pill results in his continuing to live in the simulation and not knowing the truth, where the red pill results in him being shown the truth of the simulation and revealing the “real world” that the simulation is meant to hide from him.
In the manosphere context, and applied to Dating 2.0, this is a metaphor for realizing how the feminist movement of the past 40 years has significantly changed male-female relations in terms of the sexual and relationship marketplace and how what most Western men have been taught about attracting women (just be respectful and nice, just be yourself, and you’ll eventually find a good woman) is a lie that leads to years of frustration for most men. “Taking the Red Pill” in this context, means understanding that many time-honored fundamentals of how men and women really relate still operate, though many times not consciously, and that a man who understands those fundamentals can apply them in the new social context to succeed in dating and relationships.
If you haven’t seen the film, you should: viewing it in this new context gives it whole new layers of meaning…
ah! thankyou @LostSailor, yes i have seen the film (but it’s been a while, lol) and yes, it does now indeed, totally make sense!
Ha! *now* i understand why it’s such a struggle! -as a woman who sometimes feels like i have OD’d on the red pill(!) i now get why this blog is so compelling… i haven’t stopped reading since i discovered it yesterday.
Thankyou (and thankyou to the owner -is that the right word? owner?…creator, i’m not sure), my faith in huMANity is restored, if only a little bit.
…now off to read some more and get more tips! 😉
How do I state on my dating profile that I want the following type of guy without sounding like a b*tch?
I’m smart and have a successful career, I want someone on my same level but who isn’t cocky or extremely nerdy. My dad taught me how to fix everything around the house and on work on cars. I don’t want to be “manlier” than the guy I’m dating but I also don’t want some gear-head. I like to go fishing and camping but I don’t want a redneck.
Am I just too picky?
i have been reading your blog for a long time and have repeated your wisdom to many of my apprentices who are young and like to talk about their social lives. i believe you have touched on the issue of women and social media, the constant unending stream of men coming to call, and their men who have to deal with them. could you point me in the direction of your post or others like it?
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Hey, boss… I’ve been wondering what you’re up to. Glad to see you’re still around.
R u saying that a woman doesn’t have the right to protect herself IG approached in a certain way. Because if she didnt say the eww, u would just take the no, as a sign to continue talking, continue pursuing, so the eww, does what she wants, it gets u gone. Sex is what u are yapping about when t he same men we r to be sensitive to r slaughtering us n our children, so we should be everything to men, when they need it to build themselves up n they be nothing to us, when they use it to tear us down. Women r raped n brutalized by men daily, y u don’t advocate for men to stop that, then maybe u would have more sensitive women around. Because then we wouldn’t have to take on the persona of u heartless men to survive in ur hell u call earth. So blame u daddy, n u uncle, cause they r the ones who should have taught u properly, to approach women instead of madding u with ur own self importance, n how women r u subject. Because that is what u think, so u don’t think u should have to try too hard to get sex. U think it is ur entitlement. If women werent saying ewww, with u, it would be how she said the yes, that would be degrading to u. Fix ur mentality, that is what is shining through ur eyes when u approach a woman
Who let the third-grader near the Internet?
My Blog went silent for a while, I had to step back for a bit, but things are rolling now, I’d appreciate it if you could put ne on your blog roll.
Saw his video on YouTube today and came here to give him some props and learned that he has passed away. So sad. May his soul rest in eternal peace.