Recently discovered your blog, and find it very empowering and encouraging. In several places you use words to this effect:
“If you haven’t had sex yet, a woman is looking for reasons to reject you.”
Quite a game changer for me, but something I’ve sensed intuitively for a long time. It’s happened more than I care to admit, but I never had the words to describe it. Can you elaborate some? Describe the net effect of this, and perhaps discuss how a man can counter this?
Thanks – – –
This was scottmac56 via the Contact Page at my humble blog.
scottmac56 has his own blog but it’s not so focused on dating and relationship issues as mine.
I get the sense that scottmac56 has recently discovered the Manosphere and he’s reaching out to some of the less strident voices and to someone roughly in his own generation. I’m thinking that he’s in his 50s based on a cursory look at his blog.
As for his specific question – and it’s a good one – the net effect for most men who haven’t taken the red pill is that of frustration and disappointment. Rejection by women happens all the time for men regardless of his demographic. In my online dating efforts, I get rejected over 90% of the time. Thick skin, meet the Private Man.
Women reject men all the time for reasons that seem remarkably ridiculous to us guys. But when evolutionary psychology is taken into consideration, the reasons for those rejections become much, much clearer. As well, when the social expectations are stripped away and those pesky words ignored, the actions of women reveal all. All red pill men must examine and plan/react accordingly to those actions.
scottmac56 is from a generation of men who were taught to “be in touch with their emotions” and that would make them more attractive to women. I suspect he is still laboring under this abject lie and is not quite prepared to take the red pill. Take the pill, scottmac56, take the damned pill.
It is likely that scottmac56 has had one too many cases of “oneitis” where he focused all of his romantic efforts on only one woman just to be rejected outright or stuck in the FriendZone. He pitched his woo in hopes that only one woman would catch it. This is no fault of his own, it’s what he (and me, too) was taught by social expectation with little regard to the biological imperative.
I say this to scottmac56 directly: It is man’s biological imperative to spread his seed. This is how men are programmed through evolution. Biology always trumps social expectations. Ignore the words, respect the actions. The words represent the social expectation. The actions represent the biological imperative.
Rather than trying to be perfect for one woman, A red pill man of any generation counters the rejection possibility by pitching woo to a number of women concurrently. A red pill man – through the application of Game – expands his social scene to be around more potential catchers of the woo. Of course, he must also maintain that confident demeanor and express that he’s not solely looking to pitch woo. He must express through words and actions that his life is rich and fulfilling regardless of the women around him. Too much woo is rightfully seen as desperation. It can be a fine balance, indeed.
At some point, a lucky woman will catch scottmac56’s woo and he might find himself in a healthy, long term relationship. Or perhaps he might revel in his woo-pitching abilities and form a soft harem much like my step-father did all those years ago. The choice is up to scottmac56. Hopefully, he doesn’t live in a smaller city or town. Such environs are indeed limiting to a red pill man.
Remember this post of video of the two girls commenting on the online dating profiles of men? It is disturbing and unpleasant but every red-pill man who is single needs to revisit that video on a regular basis.
A woman recently responded to a message I had sent her on plenty on PoF. Her response was quite enthusiastic. There is more here.
We had a brief chat on the phone to set up an ice cream date. In the course of the phone conversation she revealed that she and her friends often went through online dating profiles and the messages that she received from guys like me.
Suddenly, it occurred to me. Online dating for women can be a social experience. The woman with the profile invites her coterie of friends over and they all go through the incoming messages and review profiles together. It’s a gab-fest, laugh-fest, bitch-fest complete with drinks and appetizers.
Consider the feminine social dynamic of such an event – call it the “profile review session” – and the thought of a group of slightly drunk and likely bitter group of women. One woman is looking for love, sex, excitement, whatever and the Greek chorus is right there with her with this constant refrain:
“You can do better.”
Another profile pops up. Laughter ensues. By the way guys, this is your profile they are all laughing at. Again, the four words.
“You can do better.”
This happens over and over and over. It’s negative reinforcement on an 80 proof scale. With a group of women all finding reasons to reject a profile, then no profile is approved.
(Basic rule about woman and dating applies here – before she’s intimate with a man, she’s looking for reasons to reject him.)
Then the escalation occurs.
“You deserve better.”
Such a wretched, miserable word, “deserve”. It’s the word that infects dating and courtship like flesh-eating bacteria. Yet the word is tossed around more than a hacky-sack at a Phish concert (hey, I’m old, sue me).
The women continue on, the alcohol having its affect. The man-bashing commences with earnest and their attention is diverted to something more meaningful, like those awesome cupcakes in the kitchen. This is where the diet rationalization hamster gets to spinning its wheel with vigor.
What the boozy broads haven’t realized is that they’ve run out of profiles. Every man was rejected, every… single… one. As the cupcakes are consumed a general consensus is reached. Being single, fat, and unhappy is somehow empowering.
Advice for women doing the online dating thing: Don’t invite your friends over while you review messages and profiles.
Dalrock has some similar commentary on this issue, here.
Women snoop. Given a chance they will look through your cell phone calls and texts, go through your wallet, dig through your Facebook account, try to get to your emails, eavesdrop on phone calls, etc. When you start dating someone and they are at your place, it’s very important to keep the snoop factor low. Here are some basic guidelines to follow:
1. Code lock your cell phone and keep it in your pocket or out of plain site.
2. Keep your wallet in your pocket
3. Text in private
4. Hide your relationship status in Facebook
5. Destroy your paper receipts
6. Password lock your computer (ctrl-alt-del)
7. Put away personal papers so they are out of view, preferably locked up.
8. Set your phone to silent.
9. Bathrooms are a rich source for women to snoop. Hide anything vaguely incriminating.
For each guideline I have a personal story. I will not be telling those personal stories.
The reason for keeping your wallet and your cellphone in your pockets is for when you might step away for a bathroom break or to tend to something that takes you out of her site when you’re on a date or she’s visiting your place. Young women are far more likely to snoop. A woman with wisdom and experience likely has as much reason to be discreet as a man of wisdom and experience and hopefully she won’t snoop so much.
Fishing is another type of snooping but it’s based on somewhat clever questioning from her. Fishing also involves a fair degree of shit testing, too. Here’s a typical fishing question:
“You didn’t call me last night, did you have a good time?”
There is so much going on with this one question that an ordinary man would reel back, staggering defensively. She’s fishing for information and delivering a shit test all in one.
A younger red pill man would be wise to agree and amplify.
“Damn right I had a good time, those two girls were insatiable.”
An older and wiser red pill man would simply foist off the evening onto a sockpuppet.
“I was talking to my brother, he’s got a minor crisis with his youngster daughter”.
This is a deflection onto another subject and bringing in kids will usually seize the woman’s attention.
“Is everything alright?”
Instead of constructing some stupid story (yeah, it’s a lie, sue me), simply deflect again.
“It’s been resolved, he knows what he has to do.”
Then change the subject back to her. Women love talking about themselves and their feelings.
Fishing for information through conversation is something a man must be on guard for. What might seem a casual and innocuous response could be, unknowingly, too revealing. This especially true in the early dating (pre-nookie) phase. Remember that she is likely looking for reasons to reject you and so fishing is extremely important to her.
A good red pill man maintains some mystery by protecting against snooping and being on guard for fishing.
I stole this from a comment over at Sofiastry. I am originally from Boston and so I got all giddy from the Bruin’s very recent Stanley Cup victory. Happily, I’m old enough to remember the last time the Bruin’s took the cup (Bobby Orr, anyone?)
The riots in Vancouver took me by surprise. Canadian riot? That’s an oxymoron.
I found this photo to be oddly comical. A Canadian. An Asian. A hipster. A nerd. He’s in full on rage mode over a hockey game. Is this a sign of the apocalypse?
By way of an introduction to this post, I once again salute the Manosphere and its many and varied bloggers, commenters, and readers. The collective wisdom of men is vast and with the ‘Net, information is shared quickly.
While reading the Badger’s blog, I found a cross post from a blog by a fellow named VK. VK is obviously a younger guy but his first date question suggestion is so perfectly, fantastically brilliant that it shows the wisdom of a man much older.
This first date question – and the rationale behind it – should be spread around the Manosphere widely and quickly.
The question seems relatively innocuous until you read the follow up behind it. I’m quoting VK mostly but with a few edits to make it more readable:
If you listen closely enough to her answer, she’ll basically tell you a list of traits of the guys that have dicked her over have. If she say’s something like, “most of the guys I’ve dated are needy and insecure or too clingy” this lets you know to be the opposite and be a detached alpha. If she says that most of the guys she’s dated are “too macho, arrogant, and full of themselves”, this allows you to fall back and try not to brag too much about your accomplishments and even show a more feminine side.
The point is to use this information to appear “different” from all the other guys she’s dated. Nothing turns a girl on more than dating a type of guy thats new or she thinks she’s never dated before. Even if you are like all the other guys she’s dated, you can put on something of a front.”
(By the way, it’s your own business if you want to put up a front just to pitch some successful woo.)
There is also another benefit to this question. I won’t give that away. Consider it an intellectual exercise for the savvy man to work through.
VK’s wisdom gets better with some further analysis. Naturally, the woman will ask you the same question. Your response must be something like this:
“I’ve been really lucky, I’ve met a lot of cool, interesting and smart women. I’m even friends with some of them still. But I’ve heard some horror stories from my friends, it seems that a lot of girls out there like to play games or are just crazy”
As VK says quite accurately – “It’s not your turn to list the traits of all the stuck up girls that have screwed you over. Guys complaining about other women on dates give off the possible serial killer, probable date rape vibe.” This is key. NEVER complain about the women you have dated. Never, ever, ever. Use the mythical “friends” as a sockpuppet.
Why such a question? Read the reason and let the epiphany wash over you:
This answer again does two things. It makes you appear to date a lot of hot, cool chicks while giving off the impression that some of them were good enough to keep around and still are. This will bring up the competition juice in your date to check herself and see if she measures up to the women of your pass. You bring in the comment about your friend though as a way of letting her know all the undesirable traits you don’t expect her to have. Flaking on dates, returning texts in an unreasonable amount of time, playing games… whatever you can think of.
VK gets serious credit for his logic and reason regarding this.
My neighbor is a 40-something, never married woman who understands the red pill attitude. She clued me into this move:
Rodger Keaton is a socially challenged, clinically frigid, computer nerd, desperate single white male. Patricia Bartlett is a ruthless award winning journalist who has found her man. Pitted against overwhelming odds, Hollywood makeover Guru Brad Holloway is blackmailed via the threat of crippling publicity. Brad’s challenge is a “mission impossible” makeover and he must prove with substantial results that his Ultimate Makeover Services are the ‘Real Deal’. Over the next six weeks, Brad & Rodger take a most unlikely journey into often uncharted terrain, with hilarious & heart warming results at every turn. But can true change be given a deadline? And can anything with a deadline be thoroughly achieved? A willing dog can learn a thousand new tricks, but is self-identity a trick? Can it be learnt, or must it be found? Join Rodger on a roller coaster of fear, anxiety, disaster, celebration, discovery, reinvention & hope as he hurtles toward the finishing line in this race against time.
It’s a small, Australian movie (2009) and is awash in Game concepts. Hell, even the word “Game” is used copiously. Watching the transformation of the beta into a player is hilarious and encouraging. The protagonist becomes a seduction machine. Of course, maybe Australian women are easy. The script writer obviously read a bunch of Game books and came up with a clever movie. Oh… and there is a mention of a “PUA Lair”. Yeah, all Game, all the time.
The ending is messily thought-provoking.
Sadly, I can’t find it on Netflix but it’s on a Youtube channel. I’d link to it but I’m a bit concerned about piracy stuff.
I encourage everyone in the Manosphere to check out this motion picture.
In the process of the transition from beta to aspiring alpha to alpha, men are constantly told to stop being an orbiter. An orbiter is usually a hapless beta (or average frustrated chump) who circles around a girl hoping to get in her good graces (her pants) by being the supportive white knight “friend”. For beta men, I continue giving the same advice: Don’t be the orbiter who simply gets exploited for heavy lifting, attention, and emotional support.
Once a man has taken the red pill of wisdom regarding women, I believe strongly there is value in being a type of orbiter. I am not suggesting the white knight behavior of the beta orbiter. I am suggesting that the aspiring alpha spends time with women in a platonic sense for two reasons – introductions to other women and the opportunity to continue the learning process about women in the context of dating and relationships.
To get introductions to other women and the likely preselection is common sense. Having a few women friends means access to different social circles. It really doesn’t matter if your goals are for short term or long term relationships, those female friends of friends represent a target rich environment. Even if you shag some of these dames and the word gets out that you’re a player, it’s simply a form of preselection and the other females will let you pursue them despite what other females might say about you. “He’s such a player” is a huge compliment to you and not at all off-putting to the other women. As well, being a savvy orbiter could very well get you some prequalification.
If you’re looking for a long term relationship, your female friends will likely be more honest about those other female friends. A female confident will be the first to state if one of her friends is a skank or a woman of quality. Just be aware of ulterior motives and hidden agendas. Your female friend might just be cockblocking. Being a good orbiter takes some knowledge.
Another good reason to be an aspiring alpha who orbits around certain women is the opportunity to learn. Consider this analogy: A visit to the monkey house in the zoo is entertaining but without real knowledge, you have no idea why the cute macaque is flinging poo. However, a man learning primatology might know why the monkeys fling poo. This would make his visit to the zoo more about learning than entertainment.
The aspiring alpha is the primatologist and the zoo is the circle of female friends that he orbits around. There is nothing more valuable to learning about female gender than a woman whose guard is down and is speaking freely. It’s a double value if a group of women are talking about men, dating, and relationships and you, as a safe orbiter who has red pill knowledge, can see women in a relative new (and accurate) light.
One of the downsides to being such an orbiter is that it’s very easy to fall back on beta habits. Resist those urges enough and you may find yourself being seen in a whole new way by those women around whom you orbit. You might find yourself in a hot, sweaty bedroom romp with one of them. Bonus!
Last week I posted on a couple of dating coaches. One of them, Evan Marc Katz , has really piqued my interest. I signed up for his free newsletter under a female name and I have been receiving lots of emails from him. Email marketing is all the rage and Evan is certainly using it. Based on the information on his website, Katz’s primary client base is professional women over 35. He caters to the “smart, strong, successful women”. Those are his words in quotes, not mine.
As I have been plowing through his website, his blog, and his videos available on Youtube. For the most part, he’s telling the ladies to be more respectful and considerate to men and not be so blindingly picky. He’s certainly aware of Game and he flirts with the concept of hypergamy while not actually using the word.
Here are some lines from his latest email:
Any man who has made your knees weak throughout your entire life is NOT your future husband and is NOT going to be with you ‘til the day you’re gone.
Which is why I can say, with great confidence, that having that “feeling” on the first date is not a very good predictor of your future.
That feeling is just a feeling – and it’s quite a misleading one, don’t you think?
Your excitement in his presence masked a whole ton of flaws and incompatibilities that you were willing to tolerate – all in the name of chemistry.
That’s some serious red pill stuff, right there. Denizens of the Manosphere will immediately recognize what he describes as the “‘gina tingle”. Katz is just using different and more commonly accepted term outside the Manosphere: “chemistry”
Another email from Katz is almost revolutionary in regards to advice to his clients and potential clients:
So what does it take to have a partner treat you like royalty?
Treat your partner like royalty every single day. [Aunt Haley, please take note]
Impossible, you say. You can’t make a partner be as thoughtful and generous as you.
Ah, but you can.
Treat a guy well and he’s not going to go anywhere. [Misandrists, please take note]
While he is pushing his book sales, he’s definitely in red pill territory. He continues in that email:
By being a more supportive and accepting girlfriend, you actually bring a better side out in your man. That’s right.
Most men are used to women telling us what’s wrong with us. When we find someone who accentuates the positive and ignores the negative, we feel like a million bucks.
Women pay this guy big bucks for stuff that is simple common sense in the Manosphere. On his book page I found this startling bit of marketing copy about the mistakes women make that make men disappear:
Mistake #1: Believing That What Attracts Him to You is the Same Thing You Find Attractive in Him
What you’re looking for in a man is NOT what he’s looking for in a woman.
* He doesn’t care if you’re smarter than he is.
* He doesn’t care what you do for a living or if you have a healthy bank account.
* He doesn’t care if you’re cultured and well-traveled and sophisticated about the finer things.
Thus, your strongest traits – your intelligence, your success, your independence, your drive – don’t matter as much to him. He wants what he can’t get from his male friends.
I want to re-iterate this point: women pay him for this advice. Katz is using basic Manosphere dating and relationship wisdom to make money from women. Here is an important point: It doesn’t matter if he learned his wisdom on his own or spent countless hours in the Manosphere, Evan Mark Katz is doing more to advance Manosphere concepts of dating and relationships than any blog (including mine) or PUA bootcamp. He’s bringing those concepts directly to women (and they pay him for that, holy crap!).
But wait, there’s more from Katz on the same book page:
Men win you over by giving to you. We ask you out. We call you. We pay for dates. We initiate sex. We ask for commitment. We propose marriage. We give. You receive. Reverse this order by asking him out, initiating sex, asking for commitment, or proposing marriage, and a masculine guy will feel, well, emasculated. Thus, if you want a masculine guy, your greatest move is to embrace your passive feminine side.
The masculine attracts the feminine and the feminine attracts the masculine. How basic is that? Too much so for two generations of women who have voluntarily transformed themselves with masculine behaviors and attitudes.
As an aside, he’s got some videos to watch and those are quite good. His video messages are much the same as he presents on his website.
I’m not going to put this guy on a pedestal because I do take serious umbrage of his description of men who use Game. In his Writing page, he comments on the Neil Strauss book, The Game:
Distasteful though it might be, this bestseller is an amazingly well-told story about a society of pick-up artists and how they manage to manipulate and seduce women. If you want a good read – closer to a novel than a self-help book – you’ll marvel at how shy, nerdy guys, armed with information, quickly turn into toxic players. A great look inside the insecure male mind.
I don’t doubt the shy, nerdy guys part. But the insecure part is simple shaming language that is the standard refrain for those who lack an understanding of Game and its practitioners. Hopefully, Katz will read Athol Kay’s book to gain a whole new appreciation for Game in the context of a committed relationship.
The only flaw in his approach is to encourage the woman to think of herself as the prize and that men are lucky to have her. I understand this approach (saw it on one of his videos) because that’s what women want to hear and he’s a businessman who understands his market. Yet it still reinforces the entitlement attitude in women and outside of a business like Katz’s, should never be done.
It’s worth checking out his blog where quite a few women commenters resort to misandry and feminist ideology to rationalize away the real need for honest introspection and self-improvement. Note: Let’s not get all Manosphere aggressive on his blog. Dating coaches like this are on the vanguard of attitude change and he needs to be considered a friend of the Manosphere.