Long Commentary On Red Pill Understanding Of Attraction
I spend way too much time reading stuff on the Internet. I read dating blogs, feminist blogs, Manosphere blogs, all of it. I’ve been involved in Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/) for a few months now and found an excellent comment on another subreddit (in response to another comment). This guy is an excellent example of how a man can improve himself.
I had always been the kind of guy to believe that just being a good person and treating women nicely was enough to attract them. I had a horrible time with women. When I got a girlfriend who stuck with me for awhile I clung to her, proposed, married her, and had a horrible 9 year marriage, the whole time trying harder and harder to please her. She ended up cheating on me with my best friend. I left her shortly after finding out.
I was determined to understand how to attract quality women better. I don’t mean easy lays; I mean the cream of the crop: smart, attractive, funny, friendly, loving, competent, charming. I read a ton of books on the subject and it was all gimmicks. Nothing actually explained why women were different from men and what actually attracts them. Certainly they aren’t attracted to men in the same way that men are attracted to women. That was very apparent to me for a long time, and is obvious throughout nature (sexual dimorphism).
Then I read a few scientific books on the matter: Sperm Wars (Robin Baker), The Mating Mind (Geoffrey Miller), and Red Queen (Matt Ridley). It all started falling into place. Having read The Selfish Gene and being knowledgeable in system dynamics and game theory, I understood the natural selection pressures that make our attractions different. But this still didn’t give me insight into how to attract higher quality women.
When researching more books of the like I found these above books common on reading lists for something called PUAs. (This was 2005. I had no idea what it was.) In particular, these lists seemed related to somebody called David DeAngelo who had an ebook called “Double Your Dating”. OK, sounded like more of the earlier self-help crap I ran into, but the link to these books I had already read had me intrigued. I got his ebook and loved it, then got his Advanced Dating Series (audio) (and later Mastery Series).
Wow. Everything clicked into place. While the goal was about improved dating, David kept re-focusing everybody back again and again to it being about improving yourself as a man and becoming the type of man who attracted women. Not by being fake, but by becoming a better person. Being better includes treating women in ways they actually like and respond to. “Being yourself” is an empty yet common statement since we aren’t static. We all change and you can change for the better by better understanding how things work, whether philosophy, politics, social well-being, and relationships. And I did just that.
I began to experiment. I became more playful, more teasing, more mysterious. Some were great, some failed miserably, but all were educational. I remember one experiment where I was out with a bunch of friends in a pub as we did every week or two, and I just brought along a candy sucker. I had it in my mouth all evening. I’d take it out to sip beer and talk, then put it back in. I never said a word about it or acted like it was out of the ordinary. I had women coming up to me asking about it, including the cute bartender we saw every week who had never said much to me before. Now we had a great conversation.
I learned sexual banter and witty remarks, and why women actually like this. I also learned signals for when they don’t like it. In fact, I learned about hidden signals in general (hair flipping, touching necks, smiles, looks, stances, and so on). I got really good at it.
See, courtship isn’t not a job interview with a resume. It is a dance. That means knowing how to lead, follow, and read cues and respond accordingly. And none of these signals can be blatant or obvious or they lose all value as evaluation proxy signals for mating value. That’s a key point of sexual selection.
And I read a lot of other PUA material like Mystery, Style (Neil Strauss, author of The Game), and a few others. They were fine but they only touched on the why basics and then focused on the gimmick techniques too much with too little about it being part of becoming a better man. I did like Mystery’s 9-stage diagramming system as a means to keep it organized in my mind, as I am a visual person with an expertise in system behaviour, so these diagrams are helpful.
Did it get me laid? Sure. But quite the opposite of what the above comment suggests. Because I got better at being an attractive man, I was able to attract higher quality women, not lower quality women. When learning to dance you’ll only get low quality partners. As you improve in your dance you can move up to the top quality ones.
And I did. Within a year and a half I was dating one of the nicest women I had ever met who also happened to be a model and one of the most gorgeous I had know. Never in my life did I believe that could happen. She took my breath away and we got serious for awhile. After a few months it didn’t work out for unrelated reasons, but it was a great time.
Shortly thereafter I met my dream girl. She was gorgeous, friendly, intelligent, charming, funny, and perfect in every way I could imagine. What’s better is how we met. We started discussing dating online months before I met her. I talked to her at great length about all of the things in the PUA material. After meeting, I even listened to David DeAngelos material with her and got her to read Mystery’s ebook. She agreed with most of what they said. She absolutely loved discussing this material and how it can help men become better at dating.
That was in 2007. A week from today will be our 5th wedding anniversary and we have two young children. I am still deeply in love with her (and vice versa) and she is still my dream girl. And we still like to talk about dating and courtship and this material. (We still refer to things as DLV and DHV – Demonstration of Lower/Higher Value, as per Mystery’s system.)
And I still use it with her. When things start seeming a little stale in our marriage, I re-learn some of that material. Things like how women like mystery and surprise, and having the man make the arrangements. (One early epiphany for me was when David D said that women tend to prefer to be in a restaurant they don’t like eating food they don’t like but the man made the arrangements and surprised her, than to be in her favorite restaurant eating her favorite food but she had to tell him what to do, or worse, to make the arrangements herself.)
So this is why I think the above comment is mostly wrong. I am a better person now. I am more attractive to women in general and my wife specifically. I increased the quality of woman I attracted, not lowered. I found high-quality girlfriends, not just one-night stands, and a wife. And women, knowing all of this, are not “laughing their asses off” at me. In fact, it is a bigger attractor. I feel more confident, I understand more, and perhaps most importantly I can better communicate with, understand, and keep my wife interested and happy. None of this would be possible hand I just kept thinking the same way I used to even though I was kind, empathetic, and a genuine person then. I am still a kind, empathetic, and genuine person.
Does TheRedPill have good info in this respect? I can’t tell since I don’t subscribe to it. I’ve looked briefly and it’s stated goal of being better men seems appropriate, and there is some good material in there, but of course some cheap, sexist material mixed in and at least occasionally too much “I’m a better alpha than you” type competitions. That’s why David D had to keep reminding everyone about the importance of the goal of being a better man. (The “inner game”, as he’d call it, vs the “outer game” which is skills.) However, in general, PUA material has plenty of good stuff if you keep the goal in mind and interpret it in that context. I do highly recommend David D, at least the Advance Dating Series and Mastery Series.
This doesn’t mean I think the above comment is a complete failure. If your goal is to become a better man with women in general, as I have, then I think the comment is wrong, particularly if you keep that goal in mind as you read and review PUA material.
If your goal is to just get cheap lays, then obviously the above comment fails since the criticisms is actually your goal.
Where the above comment may have value is if your goal is to become a better person and attract higher quality women, but you ignore those aspects of PUA material, focus on the techniques, and apply them in a disingenuous manner. Then they will laugh at you. But the solution is use the material to become a better man. You can be kind, empathetic, and genuine and sill very lousy at attracting women, as many friendzoned men are. You want to be those things and be good at the “dance” of courtship.
That will mean so much more than being a lonely, but good person, or settling for whatever woman you manage to get by fumbling through bad courtship. I did that for 9 years and it sucked. Learning how to attract quality women is one of the best things you could ever do to improve your life. At our wedding I said in my speech that I wasn’t lucky to have found my wife because luck had nothing to do with it. I simply kept my standards as high as possible and it was inevitable that I’d marry the only woman who could meet them. That sounds like line, but I actually meant it seriously. She is the highest quality woman I’ve ever met, and I’d never have married her if I followed the above comment advice.