The Private Man

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Men Are Bitter And Angry And That’s Awesome

After reading one too many Red Pill blogs, a female friend texted me:

I need a break from all this Red Pill stuff. Some it makes a lot of sense but a lot of it is starting to carry the stench of anger, bitterness, judgment, and just downright meanness.

She’s right.

I cannot apologize for those things because such negativity is a perfectly natural reaction from a generation of men betrayed on a massive level. It is the betrayal by society telling lies about almost everything that a man experiences in his life.  The vast breadth and depth of the lies went relatively unnoticed for a couple of generations. But with the internet, guys can now communicate about social issues (the lies) amongst themselves and women can digitally eavesdrop.

Here are some of those examples of those lies:

“Be nice, be yourself”

“Man up! (to do a woman’s bidding)”

“Women don’t do those kind of things”

“Work hard and sacrifice”

“Be more in touch with your emotions and express them more”

“Never, ever judge a woman”

In days or yore, these were not lies. These statements were about a valid social expectation where a man could expect to be rewarded for following those expectations. The rewards were typically respect and a relationship with a woman. But at some point in our social history those rewards became less and less. Regardless, men still soldiered on. They manned up. They hoped the pretty lies were true. They didn’t know the social contract between the genders was broken (link below).

Though it was slow, men started to figure out that something was rotten in Denmark. Ever increasing numbers of men began the process of learning that they had been betrayed by the pretty lies of cancerous social expectations. The Internet allowed men to communicate with each other. Men discovered common themes and common, shared experiences. The men discovered that they weren’t alone.

The men got angry, very angry. You want some anger? Read M3’s legendary post about being involuntarily celibate for 12 years (link below). That’s righteous and justifiable rage. In their expression of anger, a lot of ornery meanness came out. It’s still coming out as is witnessed in blog posts and the comments in blog posts. I say good for that. This is part of the grieving process (link below). The problem is that as new men enter the Red Pill pipeline, they go through the anger phase. This means that any Manosphere blog will always have a number of men expressing anger and bitterness in the comments.

What’s not noticed is the number of guys who have worked their way to acceptance and no longer write from anger. They are too busy improving themselves to let anger side track them. This can be seen in Manosphere blogs. They start from anger and, over time, mature into something else or quietly fade away because the blogger has realized that his anger has subsided and so has his motivation to write. Of course there will be a small and vocal minority of perpetually pissed off men and they can be mean as snakes. These guys get the attention because they are the exceptions. It’s part of our human nature to notice and call out the exceptions. But the exception does not make the rule.

The reason the anger is so awesome is because it means that men are seeing how social expectations are ruining life for them. The anger is the proper reaction to “Wait, I was lied to all these years?!”. Damned right he gets angry and bitter. He’s supposed to because he realized that he was getting fucked.

The Broken Gender Social Contract

Confessions Of An Involuntary Celibate

Stages Of Loss And Grief

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71 thoughts on “Men Are Bitter And Angry And That’s Awesome

  1. I will never understand why so many men on the Manosphere worship that incel post at M3s. It was a long post of anger, bitterness and threats of violence against women. If it turns any man on, or excites him, that man has serious issues to address. I threw up in my mouth reading it. He wanted to kill women because he didn’t know how to attract them. That sounds so amazing.

    • I suspect it’s because of your youth. You are fortunate to read this stuff early in life and so haven’t experienced the betrayal that guys over a certain age have experienced.

      • My youth has nothing to do with it.

        Think I’ve never suffered at the hands of women? I’ve been on the receiving end of a false rape charge. Cost me 13,000 dollars and forced me to move to another state.

        Am I bitter? No. Did it suck? Yes. Do I write about disfiguring women and punching them in the face and blaming them for all my problems? No. Am I even angry at the woman who falsely accused me? Nope.

        Blaming others for your problems has nothing to do with age, Andrew. I’m surprised you would say such a thing.

      • I was unaware of your back story regarding the false rape accusation. Perhaps I read about on your blog but forgot? I don’t know. I bring up the age thing because there are indeed different experiences and perceptions based on the changes in our country’s social history. One of the other commenters said it well:

        …I’m here to tell you, many, MANY men lived similar experiences in our age group. (I’m in my 40′s, and I’d say any man born between the late 60′s and into the 80′s probably saw much of the same.)

        The social betrayal was huge. It was one lie after another forced upon us and believed it all. We worked against our own interests and desires because we thought that some reward would be bestowed on us. And when we finally learned of the big lies, our anger was indeed channeled at others. It was a predictable part of the process. But as I said in the post, many (if not most) have worked through the anger, stopped blaming others, and started looking inward to see how best to deal with the true social and cultural landscape that men face.

      • I think I’ve mentioned it in a post or two, but I don’t really make a huge deal about it. Hardly something to dwell on. Besides, being run out of town with death threats led me to a more lucrative career and new friends. All is well that ends well.

      • And my anger led to blogging and also meeting some cool fellows and hopefully having a real influence in guy’s lives.

      • Cautiously Pessimistic on said:

        Something else to consider regarding the Big Lie for people in their 40’s and older… This was before the internet really took off, and a couple of decades before the web. If you couldn’t find it at the library, the bookstore, on television (all three channels of it), radio, or happen to know someone you trusted that would give you straight dope, you wouldn’t even know there was a red pill or a way of looking at things that wasn’t feminist garbage. All you knew was that all the answers available either didn’t work or couldn’t be implemented.

        Hell, compared to back in the day, finding redpill stuff now is as easy as falling off a log, and it’s far more obvious that society is broken. You still have people that haven’t heard of it, and can’t/won’t believe it if they have.

    • Correction sir. Disfigured, not killed, so they might have a tangible basis for understanding what it would feel like to be undesirable by men for the rest of their lives (or at least 12 years) and know that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, that they will have to endure celibacy not by their choice, but by the choice of men.

      You seem to come from a place where life was perfect and everything went without a hitch. Perhaps you developed around alphas, or were a natural and were able to avoid being fed bullshit, or were genetically gifted to never have been predisposed to the kind of softserve bullshit smeared onto other beta’s on how to properly behave.

      Whatever your story.. it’s obvious that you couldn’t, wouldn’t, and will never relate to what i went through, and what so many other guys could. That you avoided it, by fluke, luck, work, sheer determination or guille, whatever it was… im happy for you. Count your blessings.

      But for gods sake, stop trivializing other men’s issues because you didn’t happen to walk their shoes. I’m exactly what PM wrote about above. I started out full of anger and rage as one pretty lie after another got crushed as i delved further into the sphere. Then i turned that anger into affecting change in my life. I’m not angry anymore. I still voice blunt opinions but it’s not about rage. And through it all, because of all my changes, my work, dedication, going through those stages that i got to where i did today, a better man for it and in a much happier and better situation to where i am no longer recognizable from when i first wrote that incel post.

      But it all started from there. Without it, i’d still be some beta/omega wretch crying alone in my room. You want to piss on me or my post.. knock yourself out. I didn’t write it for a pity party, i wrote it to wake guys up. And from the amount of emails ive received from people thanking me for writing about something, giving a voice to something nameless and too shameful for others to talk about.. i gave them hope, helped them, and even in one case stopped some guy from throwing himself off a bridge. That was all the justification i needed for writing it.

      You will never understand why, and quite frankly i don’t care either. That post was never meant for you in the first place.

      • You, also, are incorrect. I grew up a nerdy, geeky kid with very thick glasses, braces and always hiding behind a book. I got insulted, picked on, humiliated and beaten on a daily basis by me peers in school. My Father hated me and thought I was a faggot because I would rather read than go hunting and fishing. Women just laughed at me or didn’t realize I existed.

        Whose fault was this? Mine.

        I don’t write posts about wanting to strangle or beat my Father with chains, as he did me.

        I don’t write about wanting to punish women for my own shortcomings. Because they were MY shortcomings.

        Do I have an amazing life now? Yep. Anything to complain about? Nope. Women love me? Yes. Men respect me? Yes. Father thinks I’m the best, manliest son ever? Indeed he does.

        What had to change to get here? ME. Women didn’t change. My peers didn’t change. Father didn’t change. I woke up and realized I was a pathetic excuse for a man. And that was my fault.

        Man was given free will, sir. We have had it since the beginning, and since the Garden of Eden we have used it to bring about our own misery. But the thing about free will……

        The Freedom to Choose is the Freedom to Face the Consequences.

        Y’all have a wonderful day. And don’t be bitter. The world is a wonderful and beautiful place.

        Let me rephrase that….the world is what you make it.

      • Then you and me shared the same past and got to our respective happy places via different routes. Yep, I owned my short comings as it was the only way forward. That’s also the essence of the Post, beyond the anger.. a message for guys who can relate to being in that situation and not knowing why, so they can do something about it instead of buying into the feminine imperative and lies of feminism.

        The world is what you make of it, but only when you are free. For thousands of blue pill slaves, that angry post is their first introduction to what lies beyond the walls of their prison, beyond the iron Gates with the words “work will set you free” above them. When they finally realize they’ve been lied to since birth.

        I’m glad you had the fortitude to break through the lies and effect change in yourself in the manner you did. I took a different route, a route I needed to take to internalize the lessons. And in so doing did help others take that first step into reclaiming their own destiny, and become free men capable of owning their responsibility to change for the better for themselves first and foremost. We come to expect bitter men, and this help shepherd them through it until they are bitter no more and do see the wonderful world out can be when you accept being a man on your own terms and not how feminists dictate being a man should be.

    • What I got from the post is that he was frustrated that he wasn’t in control of his life…and sex was the topic. Many guys can relate to that.

      To flip the script I chose to be celibate until I get married…that is the world I created so not having sex with girls wasn’t making me angry. However everything else in my life was out of control and I was angry about it. The reason being is that while I had this perceived higher beacon of morality on the sexuality side…I didn’t have it as much in other avenues. So basically I was in the same boat as an involuntary celibate. Once I got everything into control including my own inner world…my life changed for the better.

      • He wasn’t in control of his life?

        Unless you are enslaved or incarcerated, you are in control of your life.

      • earl on said:

        Well you are born into the enslavement of sin and the incarceration is the world.

        I’m talking more about the soul than anything. That was something I need to get control of. The more bad things I did to myself and others…the worse of a person I became.

  2. When properly harnessed and channeled, anger can be a great motivator for change. When it gets to be a problem is when we stay there.

    M3 wrote about his anger. He felt it, but didn’t stay there. He used it to get better.

    Sometimes men need to write about their strong negative feelings to get them out, to make sense of them, to see them for what they are, and then move beyond them. There is literally nowhere else other than here that M3 could express those feelings without being either severely shamed, arrested, fired, or committed to a psych ward.

    This is part of the healing process. This is part of acceptance of what was taken from us, and gathering the strength to take it back.

  3. “I will never understand why so many men on the Manosphere worship that incel post at M3s.”

    Who worships that post?!

    I could relate to it. Understand it. Lived some of it. But worship it?! not in the least.

    If you’ve never had to deal with anything M3 wrote, good for you! But I’m here to tell you, many, MANY men lived similar experiences in our age group. (I’m in my 40’s, and I’d say any man born between the late 60’s and into the 80’s probably saw much of the same.) It may be that things are indeed getting better for men, and I’ve said elsewhere that I see some hope in the attitude my boys have towards their female peers, which is FAR more realistic than anything I believed at 14 about women. I fell for the “woman are the fairer/more moral” part of the human species hook-line-and sinker. My boys seem to realize that many women are up to no good, and they should all be watched carefully. More to the point, knowing that women are no better than men in the moral arena allows them to view and judge female behavior in a far more balanced manner than I did as a young man.

    Now their battle is going to be getting a fair shake against a system unfairly slanted in favor of women. But at least they aren’t blinded by some ideal of what women are. I don’t think they even know how to put a woman on a pedestal…

    • Let me explain….

      I do not, and did not, look down on him or think badly of him for writing it. It’s his blog, he can write whatever he wishes.

      I found it sickening that nearly everyone on the Manosphere acted like it was bloody Shakespeare’s Magnum Opus.

      Dozens of bloggers wrote their own posts about how it was so amazing to read about a bitter man wishing he could punch women in the face for not getting wet when he did nice things for them. That is a sign of a worrying rot under the surface of what is supposed to be…. What do you call it Andrew? Teaching men how to be attractive? That sounds like a positive thing. Do you think punching women in the face if they don’t fuck you for a dozen roses is attractive? Is that charisma?

      Cheering for that post brings a picture to mind….bloody minded, cowardly Romans cheering violence and bloodshed from the stands and running when the violence came to them. There is a rot here.

      • But as M3 has clearly pointed out, this all happened far in the past and his personal growth and improvement was quite remarkable after that. None of those feelings he had back then could be considered attractive. By learning from our personal histories we have to first study them clearly and honestly. He did so with a brutal honesty not often seen in the Manosphere. And while you have not experienced such anger in your travails, many men have. Dealing with the anger is part of the “learning to be more attractive.” I am continually astounded by first date stories where the guy angrily slanders an ex, much to the unhappy chagrin of his date.

      • Emma the Emo on said:

        “That is a sign of a worrying rot under the surface of what is supposed to be…. What do you call it Andrew? Teaching men how to be attractive? That sounds like a positive thing. Do you think punching women in the face if they don’t fuck you for a dozen roses is attractive? Is that charisma? ”

        Actually, doing that repeatedly will land you in jail and then indeed, women will want to fuck you. No matter how much we hate to hear about it. M3’s reaction was, evolutionarily speaking, healthy!
        But not all that is healthy, is moral. And I’m glad he didn’t punch any women in the face for not wanting him. Instead he just wrote a passionate post and improved himself.

      • LOL. People are taking the violence aspect a touch too seriously. I think the highlights are:

        a) for all the emotions i felt, i never went off on a girl, EVER. these were feelings locked inside me.
        b) has no one ever felt like doing violence within their own imagination to another person?
        c) is it fair to say John McCain might imagine doing severe violence to a hippster chick who might lament to him that the hour she was stuck in traffic waiting to get to the nail salon was ‘torture’? sure he’d never actually do it.. but one could only imagine the thoughts running through his mind about what he’d do to someone so vapid and solipsistic

        For all the massive ‘feelings’ and ’emotions’ i poured out there, i am a man who stayed his hand at doing so in real life.. yet i am the misogynist while actual men who do beat their women for some reason are explained away as softies you just haven’t gotten to know well, or defended as just having a rough day. And these women run back to him, the one who actually you know.. does real violence, as Emma noted.

        The main purpose of those violent thoughts stemmed from the horrendous amount of solipsism in believing that

        a) all men can get sex without fail
        b) that sex isn’t at all important (says the one glutonizing at the trough)
        c) that somehow their insignificant amount of time without sex could somehow compare to years of it

        And the only way to cure that solipsism would be to enforce it through external means like removing the attraction mechanism of women thus rendering them unattractive to men. While it stayed only in the purview of my mind, it isn’t actually a coincidence that extremely violent, aggressive and patriarchal societies routinely use acid to disfigure a woman’s face, thus making her have to endure ‘involuntary celibacy’ as no man will find her attractive from that point forward. In fact, i imagine these women might be the only ones who know how male incels feel, the hopelessness of knowing tomorrow will not bring any hope.

        But where acid attack victims have truly little hope, male incels do have hope..

        ..but not until they’re hit in the face with a hammer of truth, forcing the red pill down their throats and challenging them to shape up or ship out. Too many are so far into the matrix, as they say ‘plugged in’ they can’t know any other existence and will even fight to defend that system even against their own interests of being free to grow on their own terms. Shaming them rarely works to break them free. Relating to another persons experience and recognizing recurring patterns helps one bridge the gulf to accepting the redpill. From there, it’s their choice if they want to continue absorbing the lessons the pill offers or being replugged back into the matrix.

        I give Dr. Illusion credit where credit is due.To finish the matrix analogy.. (if you ever watched the animatrix.. “The Kid”.. he pulled himself out of the matrix without being told or swallowing a pill. He just made it happen.

        Sadly, most guys are not capable of self unplugging at that level. Most are aware something is wrong with the system, but they don’t know what it is. Not until they find ‘the sphere’.

    • Speaking as a woman, I can say that we are just as human as men are. We are not naturally “more moral” or “fairer” than men. ALL humans are capable of doing bad things and having bad thoughts. Have I done and said some horrible shit in my life? Absolutely. I just try to be the best person I can be. That’s all that we can do.

      The world of dating has changed for women just as much as it has for men. In the old days, women had to do nothing else but look pretty and be nice in order for men to court them. It isn’t that way at all anymore. I do my best to take care of my physical appearance and be a kind and fun person to be around, but the majority of men anymore don’t know what they really want and have impossibly high standards for women. I constantly have men telling me to wear more makeup, not wear any makeup at all, wear my hair long, cut my hair short, wear this, don’t wear that, etc. I finally just said, “Fuck it!” and began being my own self and grooming myself in whatever manner makes ME feel good. Somewhere out there is a man who will appreciate me for who I am and what I look like. And if not, then oh well. I won’t try to be something I’m not just to keep someone interested in me.

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  5. From personal experience this anger seems to be a stage many men go through that doesn’t last forever. I had a lengthy period where I RaAAAAaAggggggGGgGGgGeed against the femi-matrix in almost comical fashion. I think it stems from being acculturated with the expectation that women should be more caring, more empathic, more moral, etc. and yet reality presents us a very different picture from what a feminist driven society tells us, so we react with bewilderment and rage. Once you get over that hill and perceive women as human beings rather than “pedestalizing” them, the anger starts to abate to a large degree. There actually is merit to people going through different stages of acceptance, although it is possible to get stuck in the anger phase forever.

    Once I came to acceptance I realized I actually do love women, but now I see them for who they are rather than what I expected them to be.

    • @ FRANK

      “Once I came to acceptance I realized I actually do love women, but now I see them for who they are rather than what I expected them to be.”

      The golden quote.

      Once all the pretty lies die, sometimes brutally/painfully, are you finally free to have relationships with people who earn your respect, not idealized infallible caricatures of sugar and spice you were supposed to revere without fail.

      • Sean on said:

        That’s exactly it. Once the lies die inside your head, life outside of your head gets so much better. Gone is the veneer of the “truth” you get told and the freedom you gain from that disappearing is worth so very much.

  6. Yep It's Me on said:

    Anger is proper reaction – there isn’t another one that even fits – men of a certain age (I’m 51) are like Howard Beale (actor Peter Finch) the disillusioned TV Anchorman in Network – we are screaming the famous line “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore” – we say it in different ways, we act it out in different ways – but it’s the same message.

    For a refresher on this great piece of cinematography, go to this YouTube like…

    Yes, we are angry – I was angry at my STBXW for 10 years, I was angry at my kids, I was angry with my job, I was angry at almost everything and everybody in my life for a long time – I just didn’t understand “why” I was angry. I started to understand the anger the more I’ve read this and other blogs – once I started to understand, I also realized that all that anger was actually misdirected – because all that time, I was really angry at myself for being so delusional, for being so “hoodwinked and swindled”, for buying into the big lie.

    So go ahead and throw up – be astonished at the anger – but also, start to be aware of your own life, your own surroundings. Don’t allow yourself to become hypnotized by all the shiny little objects, all the pretty words used – become of aware of the messages used to keep you asleep. Open your eyes and just become aware.

    Anger fades when action is taken. Right action, taken with conviction and dedication, can move mountains.

    [and I’m not talking about violence, I’m talking about looking inside yourself, determining your own “mission” and dedicating yourself to it]

    • My commenters are brilliant.

    • What makes you think I am fooled by any pretty lies? What makes you think I am “asleep”?

      That is far from the truth. I just woke up in High School. I woke up on my own, and have been “different” from everyone I knew ever since. That wad a decade ago.

      Now, thanks to the Manosphere, I know there are others out there like me. I fly all over the country visiting Red Pill men. As a matter of fact, we are meeting up in Vegas in a few months. I’ve met some of the greatest men of my life through my blog and others. Hell, when I posted about recently having a birthday, I had several men call and ask why I didn’t tell them sooner, because they would have flown down and threw me a party.

      If there was ever something I might feel a little bitter about, it would be coming to the truth alone and feeling like I was on the outside looking in for ten years. But…, still not angry. Still my own problem.

      • Yep It's Me on said:

        Hey DrI – I wasn’t specifically speaking to you in the comment – I was speaking to men in general. I’ve read your blog, and really enjoy it. I’ve read your comments here and am that I can be part of the conversation with such men.

        It is merely meant to say – “Have a reaction, don’t be docile, do just take what’s given to you”. I admit, my anger was misdirected, but I never was violent – and didn’t have violent thoughts. Mine was more of the anger that comes with feeling duped – and the anger of lost years – following a pattern of actions that I believed would take to me a specific place, then finding out I bought a gold map that lead to nowhere.

        I’m well on my way to being over that anger. It still shows up from time to time – and I find ways to direct it’s force into something positive – rather than losing sleep or making myself stressed out and sick.

        I applaud the men that are well on their journey – I applaud those men that are just discovering the whole thing.

        “LIfe moves forward, eyes front, so you can see it coming”

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  8. Nergal on said:

    “What’s not noticed is the number of guys who have worked their way to acceptance and no longer write from anger. They are too busy improving themselves to let anger side track them.”

    It’s the Apex Fallacy at work. Women only see men who are confrontational and aggressive or monied and exceptionally good-looking. Those are the only ones they’re attracted to sexually, and if you’re a certain type of man, you could probably quietly carry hundreds of dollars of merchandise out of a store filled with females and nobody would see you do it because women completely fail to register such men mentally. It’s like they’re not even there.

    “Do you think punching women in the face if they don’t fuck you for a dozen roses is attractive?”

    Some of them do. There was a recent twitter feed about a high-profile guy on trial for killing a woman. There were thousands of women saying the female equivalent of “would hit” in response. Some of them probably used those exact words.

    “I got insulted, picked on, humiliated and beaten on a daily basis by me peers in school. My Father hated me and thought I was a faggot because I would rather read than go hunting and fishing. Women just laughed at me or didn’t realize I existed.

    Whose fault was this? Mine.”

    I had to undergo a series of adjustments to survive (I mean that literally,as you do) childhood as well. I had some faults that I have since corrected. However, what if the fault wasn’t yours? What if the things you were being picked on for weren’t things you could change, like reading too much, not hunting, not listening to the right music,etc, but were things that were pretty much fixed,like being tall,being white,being heterosexual, being male?

    You are surely rather intelligent,so I trust you can conceive of someone being in such a position. In that case, isn’t it the truth, or hasn’t it generally been believed to be the truth, that the other people need to change?

    What if the thing about yourself that you could not change was that you were unwilling or unable to force others to do things you wanted them to,like change their perspectives?

    Would anger and resentment (it’s called bitterness here,but resentment is what it really is) then be justified? After all, how can it be reasoned that treating others poorly because of factors they cannot control is anything other than scapegoating?

    Where you see “an undercurrent of rot”, I see many good and conscientious men quietly doing good deeds for their fellow men and sharing generously amongst one another and cooperating for the betterment of all those around them. They aren’t constitutionally capable of showboating,grandstanding, or lording their sacrifices or pain over others. It sickens them. They have reached this state by undergoing a deep and ugly emotional turmoil, and now they are at peace. Helping other men gives meaning and purpose to their lives,and is a genuinely good cause apart from all the other phony Hollywood fad charities.They are sacrificing what little they have to create stability and purpose for others.

    If all we have to do to get there is for men to write a few rants about not getting laid(that read like any mainstream women’s erotic literature,so don’t give me that crap about cowardly Romans) then we should be so lucky.

    You’re looking a gift horse in the mouth. Look at what the Manosphere has done for men. It has elevated Southern rednecks to philosophers,it has turned armchair activists into Mandelas, it has made wonks even wonkier. It has succeeded where the conventional wisdom failed.

    It is not supposed to be a positive thing, it is a positive thing. Warts and all. Without the manosphere, we wouldn’t even be discussing men improving themselves. There was no possible way to do so. You had two choices, do the mainstream thing or do the mainstream thing while groveling over your “male privilege”.

    • Awesome and well worded comment. As a Southern redneck I laughed hard. All good points, as well.

      The title of PMs post about bitterness and anger being good irritated me, and people continually pointing to that incel post is just starting to become something like a toothache that flares up at odd moments.

      An explanation is required of why I am something of an activist against bitterness and rage on the Manosphere.

      As I’ve mentioned on my blog, we are slowly getting more and more play in the mainstream. More and more people find the sphere every day, some way or another.

      I’m not advocating for political correctness, but now is the time to at least consider some PR. When the first major movie mentions us, or the first major news outlet…do you think it will help our message if that mention is “A loose collection of blogs, advocating male bitterness and rage, where fantasies of violence against women and disfiguring them in retaliation for not sleeping with the bloggers is applauded and cheered from all corners.”?

      Is that the message you want out there? We are here to help men. More men coming here, more men not trapped in M3s nightmare for years. While I understand the bitterness, at least intellectually, it’s not helping us in the Public Relations department. That’s my reasoning.

      I’m not here to preach, just attempting to temper some of the worst of the darkness being bled onto the sphere. Yes, it’s inside all of us. I know, and I’m not denying it. Just try not to advertise and applaud it too loudly, lest we all end up branded crazy woman hating violence fetishists, get outted and wind up unemployable. Just my thoughts.

      M3, no offense meant. As men I hope it’s not necessary to say that since we can take criticism, but you never know.

      • I never took offense and respect your opinion. I’ll be the first to admit that post isn’t going to win mainstream awards, and yes, it is heavy on tones of violence and unattractive. It can very much be grabbed ahold of by unhinged men as justification for doing deplorable shit, and by lunatic femcunts who would paint the entire sphere as misogynist and violent against women.

        I agree with you that it’s not a post that should be held up as a model way of acting. It was simply ‘my own story’ of how i broke loose from the system. I guess enough people could relate to it by seeing bits of their own life in it, and it fueled the rage.

        As i stated in my RedPill room AMA, while i used that rage to get over the hump, it’s not there anymore, neither is the bitterness. I wouldn’t be where i am today if i held onto that rage. there have been moments where i’ve contemplated shuttering the blog and ghosting. i’ve achieved all the gains i want and took the lessons from the sphere and become the man i always wanted to be with the outcome i desired, not settled for. it would be so simple to hit the delete wordpress button and leave, having achieved what i set out to do. Leaving my blog up is now a liability to my real world self still living in a femcentric world, not to mention a chore to keep writing stuff for. I leave that post up (and continue writing) because i know it still helps people.

        i know one person who told me it literally helped him take the gun out of his mouth, change his mindset and put a few notches on his belt before becoming confident enough to start looking for an LTR. That’s incredibly powerful testimonial to keep that post up, regardless of ones views of it. It would be so easy for me to walk away. I choose not to because of vanity. This isn’t something i’m particularly proud of and would actually never want to be known for or remember. But it helps men. And that’s the only reason i stick around.

        People shouldn’t be worshiping that post or using it to curse women and further isolate themselves in hating all women. What they should take from it (by reading from start to finish) is that a lot of us had to learn the hard way we were lied to our faces by the ones we trusted and loved the most, and that once you realize that system for what it is, it is incumbent upon YOU to do the necessary work to break free. That’s how i ended that post.. telling guys who want to change their outcomes to hit that gym, work on some game, socialize, pick up attractive hobbies, approach, attract, or go their own way and do their own thing irrespective of women, etc.. you can’t just sit there, mope and be a keyboard commando asking the world to bend for you and expect attractive mates to just fall from the sky at your whim like aging fat hit the wall careerist carousel slutbag feminists do.

        And hopefully more than a few women had some pretty lies die while reading it too, knowing that NAMALT with respect to the 80/20 principle, access to sex, apex fallacy and their own hypergamy they might never have known about.

        So no worries. It’s all good, criticism and debate are good and warranted, as i would hate the sphere to simply become an echo chamber reminiscent of the kitteh brigade of the jizzabelosphere.

      • Considering PR is what got men to be incel’s the first place, I’d say the mainstream can go fuck itself. We don’t need their fucking validation. This is about men, not about the mainstream who has already discarded them.

        Have you heard Paul Elam and others discussing early parts of the Men’s movement? They’ve basically talked about how men would come to these meetings and at the end of their ropes. They also allowed women (wives, GFs) to come to meetings if they were supposedly advocates. The men who would come usually were in very bad shape emotionally. Often what would happen is that these men would end up ranting and expressing their emotions when they got the chance to speak. The women who were supposedly advocates would do the typical NAWALT and “You have to be nice, stop being angry/bitter/mean, etc” and basically they would lose men.
        Often, these men would kill themselves because they had nowhere else to turn. So FUCK anyone who tries to tell these men to stop expressing their rage, anger and bitterness because men’s lives are at stake. Fuck them entirely.

  9. Johnycomelately on said:

    “I found it sickening that nearly everyone on the Manosphere acted like it was bloody Shakespeare’s Magnum Opus.”

    Given organic distribution patterns tend to follow power laws (though the data is not definitive, the 80/20 rule isn’t without it’s merits), M3s post resonated powerfully with the 80.

    To my mind no one has ever opened themselves up like M3 and had the balls to ‘publicly’ admit what he was going through. It’s simply something guys don’t talk about, ever.

    And yet a lot of guys could empathize with his plight which shows that it isn’t all to uncommon.

    I know your a masculine positivist (which is the right frame of mind) but dismissing other peoples experiences sounds very disingenuous and comes off like…let them eat cake.

    • I wasn’t trying to discount his experience. As I said, I’ve lived through the hell of being a social outcast and even a disappointment to my own family. I know it sucks.

      Read my above response to Nergal. I explain things much better when I didn’t just wake up, which was the case when I wrote my first few comments.

  10. First, you get angry at womyn for their lies.
    Then, you accept your anger at womyn; but you can choose whether to act on it or not.
    Then, you finally get over your anger at womyn.
    Then, you Go Your Own Way — and you don’t care anymore about womyn.
    (Ironically, that’s when womyn become concerned.)

  11. I’m an attractive woman who has been celibate most of her life because the men who’ve been interested in me haven’t actually cared for me as a person, and I know it. I’ve been waiting a very long time to meet a real person who is capable of genuine feeling, friendship, and kindness. Do I think men owe me attention? No. The guy in the blog being angry about his celibacy doesn’t seem to understand that sex is not guaranteed or owed to anyone. Look in the animal kingdom. There are plenty of males that never get to reproduce, and they are not allowed to mingle with the herd, pride, or pack because they either don’t possess the strongest genes or are just unlucky. Life sucks, and no one owes you anything.

    • LC:

      You’re right. Sex is not guaranteed or owed to anyone. But that’s not what guys like M3 were told. They were told “work hard, be nice, be yourself, do whatever the girl wants, and she will love you and you will find one to love you and marry you.”

      We weren’t told you MIGHT or MAY find a girl and live happily ever after.

      We weren’t told it might not work out or probably won’t work out.

      We were told “do these things, and everlasting love WILL be yours.” Not maybe, not could be, not should be, not might be. WILL be.

      Guys like M3 and me and millions of others had to learn the hard way that it doesn’t work that way and that the rules had been changed drastically.

      • The female equivalent to this is “Prince Charming is right around the corner” or “love will find you when you least expect it” and worse “You deserve the man of your dreams.”

        So while men get angry and bitter with the massively flawed social expectations, women also have similar reactions but with a feminine type of anger and bitterness.

        To fix their problems with the bullshit social expectations, men are turning to the anonymity of the Manosphere or PUA coaches for guidance and advice. Women turn to the anonymity of self-help books and the new dating coach industry.

      • Cautiously Pessimistic on said:

        For me, a good chunk of the anger and resentment came not from the uncertainty of finding a good woman, but from having every authority figure and cultural outlet in my life from childhood on telling me the way to attract women is to be a white-knighting beta schlub, only to find out later that acting this way physically repels women. Oh, and everything women say they want? Yeah, they’re lying about that. That’s what they want from the men they already find attractive. Or it’s what they think they should want, and they certainly don’t want to admit to having icky desires that aren’t endorsed by the herd.

        Basically, I was furious at learning that ‘everything that guy just said is bullshit’.

      • Richard Cranium on said:

        M3’s post is so popular because it struck a chord with many, many men. I’ll agree with what was said here that we (I’ll include myself in this) ARE angry because we all did what we were told was the “right thnig” and it got us nothing but a kick in the teeth and watched the guys that did things the “wrong way” be rewarded with unlimited free sex.

        “Work hard, be a good guy, stay out of trouble and be responsible” we’re told since birth. So forgive us when we are angry over the women we wish and hope would respond in kind throw themselves without any remorse at all sorts of criminals, drug dealers and assorted miscreants and we are expected to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives when they’re done on the cock carousel and want to “settle down”. We watch thieves, liars and ass-kissers succeed wildly in business but we follow the “right” path and get nowhere but frustrated. You get my point.

        Taking the red pill isn’t just seeing how women are. It’s seeing that all you’ve been told about the world is a lie and you finally figured it out. You just wake up one day and do “Wow I was wrong this whole time”. You don’t know who you’re more angry at. The society that lied to you the whole time or yourself for not figuring it out sooner.

        The key is focusing your anger into motivation and a direction to better yourself. You will have detractors and naysayers along the way, including those closest to you. For example I’m a full time musician. I’m fortunate that I have skills and talents that let me make a living doing what I love. But guess what? My family doesn’t approve. They want me to get a “real job”. They say “Oh this little music thing is cute but when are you gonna grow up.” You know what? I’m more happier than I’ve been in my life. All the time I spend doing what someone else wanted me to do I was fucking miserable. Working jobs I hated because it was what someone else thought I should be doing. Don’t get me wrong I work hard at what I do. Very hard. The difference it is benefits ME and my band, not some unknown shareholders I’ll never meet or some business owner squeezing the last bit of sweat from me so he can buy the wife a new Lexus but tell me “Sorry there’s no room in the budget for a .50 cent raise.”

        Life is short. Live it for yourself. Live it to the fullest.

    • LC:

      I have to question how attractive you are if you’re going without male company and you can’t find a good, decent, kind man to whom you’re attracted. I’ve never, ever seen any reasonably attractive woman (HB 5 and up) go without a man if she wants one. Never. Not once. Any such woman can get a decent man if she wants one. Anytime, anywhere, anyplace.

      • JulesK on said:

        She was pretty clear… Company wouldn’t be a problem but she’s wise enough to be careful about men who seem to just want to fuck her. Or, put another way, she has no intention of being a cock carousel, something that is incredibly emotionally damaging to most women anyway.

      • JulesK on said:

        A friend of mine is *really* good looking, makes north of 100K, plays a fast and dangerous sport well in her off time, and is generally awesome. Can’t find a guy, and I know she yearns for one. She had a great date awhile back, wrote a blog on it that I read… Guy says he wants someone closer. Really.

    • Yep It's Me on said:


      Personally, I’m trying to figure out what point you are trying to make with your comment…I was going to dissect it with my own comments – but really who cares. The one statement I will object to is the last one…

      “Life sucks, and no one owes you anything.”

      This the most false statement anyone, regardless of circumstances can make. I would provide you evidence of why life doesn’t suck, but I’ll just leave you with this quote by James Allen from “As A Man Thinketh”

      “Man is buffeted by circumstances so long as he believes himself to be the creature of outside conditions, but when he realizes that he is a creative power, and that he may command the hidden soil and seeds of his being out of which circumstances grow, he then becomes the rightful master of himself.”

      And in those few sentences, he reminds us to take back our lives. We, unlike the animals mentioned in your comment, are the makers and masters of our lives. For many of us, we just forgot that.

    • John on said:

      No, you are right that women don’t owe to give sex nor men owe to give attention. But look at your situation versus that of incel/nice guy types. You got attention. You decided ‘meh, not good enough’ and you gave nothing in return for it. The guys did something, they gave attention, courted, were nice etc. And they got nothing.
      In other words the entitled attitude is on your side. Then it’s easy to turn around and say ‘oh I never considered owed to get attention’. But you were shown interest. You got something for nothing. The guys got nothing for something.

      • JulesK on said:

        Umm, wait, so the guys who were trying to fuck her “lost” because she decided not to fuck them? What does this post even mean?

    • LC: “…Do I think men owe me attention? No. …Life sucks, and no one owes you anything.”

      Quite true.
      But this is something Modern Womyn need to remember when they step off (or are pushed off) of the carousel, and start to wail about the absence of ‘good men’**.

      In the words of some unknown feminist, “men do not have any “right” to marriage, girlfriends, sex, or even relationships — these are not rights, they are PRIVILEGES”.

      I’d bet that Modern Womyn would probably be surprised that virtually every man would agree with that sentiment. BUT the reverse is ALSO true…
      Because Womyn are NOT “owed” nor have any “right” to husbands, children, or families — because those also are not rights, they are PRIVILEGES.
      And (just like men) Womyn ALSO are not “owed” nor have any “right” to marriage, sex, relationships or even dates.
      Modern Womyn should think about THAT when they start getting on their feminist ‘high horse’.

      **“Where are all the ‘good men’?” really means “Where’s my Captain Save-A-‘ho?”

    • JulesK on said:

      Clever girl…

  12. Fred Flange the Munificent on said:

    The point is not that M3’s post was some “holy grail”, he never claimed it was. But it was a well-synthesized summation of the horrible frustrations 80’s men who’d been told the pretty lies (like me) couldn’t understand why “be yourself, your true love is out there (but it isn’t me, NiceGuy)” wasn’t working for us. And my “incel” period was nowhere as intense or long. But when I did wake up, and reality told me: “Finally! THIS makes sense!” — the anger vanished.

  13. Craig on said:

    Dr. Illusion is this website’s version of Bob Wallace.

    Anger is a valid and healthy human emotion. Anger is what motivates people to correct injustice. Anger is a positive emotion that can lead to positive changes in peoples lives.

    M3’s Incel post is one of the most meaningful posts in the manosphere. That post resonated with thousands and thousands of men.

    If Dr. Illusiion doesn’t like M3’s Incel post, who F’ing cares!

  14. the anger can be specially hard to let go of when a new outrage appears every other day.

    we didn’t expect to have war declared on us by an ally, and a lot of men have yet to realize that they are even at war. sometimes, when someone goes to war, they end up hating the enemy for the rest of their lives.

    one thing is for sure, a lot of people fear male anger, because they know what a motivated man is capable of. I won’t pretend to know what the next major event will be, but I know for sure that the war against men will end in a massive defeat for women.

  15. When a woman blogger writes about her anger, she is “empowered.” When a man does it, he is “mean, bitter, judgmental” and they call him “whiny” and attack his manhood.

    That double standard proves why the manosphere was so important to men (like me). We all saw the social construct was broken, but we could not get together to talk about it. We needed the access and anonymity of the internet so we could listen to each other and figure things out.

    Private man, once again, nails it when he talks about anger being one of the stages, and that many men ultimately grow out of it. When society shames men from expressing that anger, they prevent the additional development that men need. BTW, the people who shame men for their anger are the same ones who say society should never shame a woman. Double standard anyone?

  16. Vesperis on said:

    This explains a lot :
    “Discussion: The target is accused of having anger management issues. Whatever negative emotions he has are assumed to be unjustifiable. Examples:
    “You’re bitter!”
    “You need to get over your anger at women.”
    “You are so negative!”
    Anger is a legitimate emotion in the face of injustice. It is important to remember that passive acceptance of evil is not a virtue…”
    from there :

    Long time italian lurker..

  17. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2013/07/17 | Free Northerner

  18. After reading one too many Red Pill blogs, a female friend texted me:

    I need a break from all this Red Pill stuff. Some it makes a lot of sense but a lot of it is starting to carry the stench of anger, bitterness, judgment, and just downright meanness.

    We don’t write for women’s sake. They can go elsewhere, lots of places elsewhere, to hear women. They can even go to manosphere-friendly female sites, where they MAY hear Red Pill truth in a different tone, if they want. But whatever; this part of the blogosphere isn’t meant for womenfolk, anyway. It’s for us men, ultimately, even if some friendly women come along and join in (many of whom eventually show that they still don’t ‘get it’, but then, it’s not theirs to get).

  19. No Pill Dating on said:

    Has anyone here considered No Pill Dating? No red pills, no blue pills, no purple pills, no drugs period! No two women (or men) are the same and have the same needs. Some women do like to take the lead in relationships. Others, like me, take turns leading and following our significant others. It sounds like a lot of guys here were treated horribly in breakups and divorces, and therefore are angry. But there are plenty of women who would never treat any man like this. I think there is too much generalizing here. For example, just because a woman over 35 isn’t married doesn’t mean she’s “ridden the carousel” and slept with a lot of men. Some have voluntarily chosen to be celibate in between serious relationships, even if it’s just to avoid getting a disease. There also seems to be some misunderstanding about the whole “don’t settle” and “your Prince Charming is coming” thing. For many women, that simply means, don’t settle for a guy who deep down you know isn’t right for you and marry him just because of social pressure. A woman’s “Prince Charming” just means the right guy for her, not someone who is literally “perfect.” One woman’s “Prince Charming” can be another woman’s frog. It’s all about “different strokes for different folks.”

    • Actually, generalizing is the smart way to go because human behavior regarding attraction is shockingly predictable. Knowing those predictable attraction points (a man’s height being just one example) helps men be more attractive to women. The whole “every one is different” approach leads to attraction and relationship failure. “Prince Charming” is attractive to the vast percentage of women. There is no “different strokes for different folks.”

  20. No Pill Dating on said:

    “There is no different strokes for different folks”? That’s really narrow minded and it’s just not true. If it were, any man and any woman, even randomly chosen, would make perfect partners. But in real life, the same man who is wrong for one woman can be Mr. Right for another, and vice versa. For many of us, a guy’s personality is way more important than how tall he is or how much hair he has.

    • It’s shockingly true and your political correctness will be the undoing of any potential relationship you might have. Read a few thousand female online profiles (I have), hair and height are deal breakers.

  21. A few observations…
    – I believe most will agree that the screwed up gender dynamics that exist today are a result of feminism gone wrong. What should have been a movement for legal/social equality turned into a anti-male, anti-masculine witch hunt with long term, devastating consequences to both genders. Men were taught masculinity was evil. Women were taught feminity was evil. The fight for legal equality was twisted into the illogical- “Men and Women are the same.” Ignoring the biological and psychological realities.
    We ALL lost.
    – Feminisim became destructive when the angry extremists turned the fight for equality into a man hating. The AllMenAreEvilRapists mantra that still exists today. Men are angry and they are completely justified in that anger.
    – SOME of the male anger I see in the Manosphere is following the same path as the feminist extremists.
    Not all, but some.
    AllWomenAreUserWhoreBitches is an equally unhealthy and destructive mindset as the AllMenAreEvilRapists mindset that has led us to today.
    – The INCEL post is simply brilliant.
    I have shared it with several of my girl friends, and not a single one of us focused on the violence comments. Those comments, to me, were M3 showing the depths of his (then) pain and anger. Hyperbole/venting/ranting.
    I, and every friend who read it, felt like Oz’s curtain had been ripped down and we were finally shown reality; we had no idea men felt this way.
    It’s changed the way I look at men, both romantically and otherwise. It’s given me a new perspective at a failed relationship- I know now where I was wrong. And yes, I have apologized.
    – Lastly, I know these blogs/posts/comments are not written for me, a woman.


  22. “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” – Gloria Steinem

    A hateful statement. From the most well-known feminist ever.

    How could what we have now be feminism gone wrong, rather than simply feminism itself, following the intended mindset of Steinem, Abzug, Friedan, MacKinnon, Greer, et al?

    No; feminism simply IS wrong, and was from the start. There never was anything good about it. Some feminists have simply been less vocally radical, but the movement was always about displacing men from their proper role AND subjugating them, instead.

    And yes, these blogs are for us. Not for others.

  23. Men need a righteous anger.

    The thing is, men do not hate women in the way that feminists hate women. Because that is what it is essentially about. Feminists hate the fact that they as women can not rise to the heights which men have achieved, from building great cities to landing on the Moon. So feminists throw their tantrums and try to drag down men into their own debased state.

    But of course, for men it’s not about hate. It is, or ought to be, about using that righteous anger to build a real political movement.

    • I agree that a clean, white hot righteous anger is a blessing; it burns away the guilt and self loathing. It allows the poisoned landscape to be razed. I would disagree that all men do not hate; some, quite clearly from their comments, do hate women.

      @Will S. – untainted, long dead, true feminism was not a man-hating movement. It was a battle for social/legal justice. The original, abandoned goals included:
      – equal work for equal pay
      – domestic violence to be recognized as the brutal crime it is
      – spousal rape also to be recognized and prosecuted
      – the right of women to own property independently
      – access to employment opportunities that previously were male-only

      Men and women are equals, but equal doesn’t mean identical.

      Women need men. Men need women. It’s a biological and psychological reality. Gloria Steinem is an idiot.

      Do we really want men to follow that example of idiocy? That was, and is, my point. Vile, cruel, generalizations have damaged so many… I pray that the victims of the past idiocy do not become the victimizers of the present.

  24. Pingback: The Meek Inherit Jack Shit or Why the Manosphere is Angry (Repost from Alternative Right) | Der Wehrwolf

  25. “(link below)” is not how hypertext works. Links are not detached endnotes.

  26. Let’s look at each of these:

    – equal work for equal pay

    I’ll put on my free market hat and say that pay is a matter of negotiation between employer and employee. If an employer wants to pay a woman different from a man, the woman can negotiate for more, find another job, go on strike, or start her own business and pay women more than men. The slogan “equal pay for equal work” translates into more power for the government to regulate the workplace, which means an overall reduction in freedom for all of us.

    Beyond that, feminists do not want “equal pay for equal work.” Under various “equity” schemes, they want to be paid the same for doing a different job than men. Thus, men may work longer harder hours, and have a much higher rate of on the job injury and death, but a woman gets paid just as much.

    – domestic violence to be recognized as the brutal crime it is

    Domestic violence has been a crime under various assault and battery laws. If women want equality, they have no right to demand special protections for “violence against women.”

    Feminist lobbied DV laws often include only women as victims, excluding men. We can add to this various “violence against women” programs, especially on college campuses. i.e., feminism is about denying men equal protection under the law.

    – spousal rape also to be recognized and prosecuted

    Then spousal theft needs to be recognized and prosecuted. i.e., women who demand financial support from their husbands, alimony, child support for children the man never sees, etc.

    And what of women who commit paternity fraud, or lie about using birth control to entrap a man into marriage or child support payments? Are feminists going to recognize these as crime and push for the women committing them to be jailed?

    If not, why the double standard?

    Of course, this is one more reason that men do not get married these decadent days. If men are such dangerous criminals because they expect their wives to have sex with them, then women should be rejoicing over the fact that men are avoiding matrimony. All those women who complain that men are “commitmentphobes” should be happy that they will never be the victims of spousal rape.

    – the right of women to own property independently

    When in the last 100 years has that not been the case in the USA?

    Let’s also note that men’s right to own property has been infringed by various alimony, etc., laws which allow a woman to loot his wealth with full backing of the courts.

    – access to employment opportunities that previously were male-only

    You mean like being drafted? Since the Pentagon has lifted the ban on women serving in combat arms, women should now be marching down to their local Selective Service offices and demanding to be drafted. Come to think of it, there should be an affirmative action draft, until the ranks of infantrypersons are 50% female.

    That would be fair.

  27. As long as I have this thing cranked up, I’d like to ask suzyvee a question:

    If women are so weak and helpless that they need special protections under “sexual harassment” and “violence against women” laws, then what makes anyone think that women are qualified for dangerous professions such as firefighter, coal miner, police officer or infantryman?

    After all, combat is an “atmosphere of hostility.”

    Will enemy soldiers who shoot at American female troops be prosecuted under “violence against women” laws?

    And what will happen when enemy PSYOP bombards female soldiers with, say, porn centerfold photos? Will female troops go into mass panic over “sexual harassment?” I mean, if women can not handle an off-color remark on campus without going into hysterical vagina monologs and slutmarches, what are they going to do when they are being torn limb from limb by shrapnel?

    Has it ever occurred to feminists that the reason that women were denied “equal” work is that women are not simply physically weaker than men, but also psychologically weaker?

    The fact that the workplace has to be rigged to protect women via various “sexual harassment” and affirmative action regs indicates that women can not compete on an equal basis with men.

    But they still want to be paid the same.


  28. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm on said:

    I don’t really care what the whole internet trend is called. I am very disappointed and deeply unhappy with women. I get angry but usually at myself for being worthless enough to have to live how I do. I have had girlfriends but that was yeeeeeaaaars ago when I was much younger. No one seems to care or be interested in even texting back now. Very sick and depressed over this for years now.

  29. Pingback: The Meek Inherit Jack Shit; or, Why the Manosphere is Angry

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