Dating 2.0 – Selection, Active And Passive – Post Recycle
[I’ll be busy the next few days so I’ll leave this up for as many people to read as possible. Do spread the word and the link.]
First, credit and inspiration for this post goes to Cedo Nulli, a blogger who lives in Thailand (link below). I found his blog from a link in a comment on another of my own posts (thanks Kev). Cedo presented the dating concept of a woman’s active selection for quality versus passive selection by elimination. He also presents an excellent analogy for these two selection processes. From his blog post [edited]:
The problem, at its core, is very simple. It boils down to active selection for quality, vs. passive selection by elimination. The first being good, the second being complete shit.
Say I asked you to go out and buy me the best phone you can find for $500. How do you choose the phone? Do you research the features, try them all out, compare, know your own preferences for operating systems and screen sizes? That would make sense.
However, here is the equivalent how girls pick their guys, for the most part:
They go to the store and proceed to smash every phone onto the floor. Whichever phone survives all the smashings, that’s the one she buys.
Which phone is that? Is it the latest high-end, big screen Samsung or is it the shittiest button phone? Duh. The crap will survive, because there is nothing to it. No awesome screen to break. No complex motherboard to get broken. The crap will survive the smashing.
That’s dating [2.0]. Whoever continues to make it through the flaking, the childish games, the bullshit, that’s the guy she ends up with. Quality guys with options won’t put up with that.
In effect, the shortage of good men is because too many women have been smashing them to the ground, leaving behind weak men who acquiesce to this (FriendZone!) or dark triad cads who then turn around and smash the woman through ugly manipulation or some form of abuse.
While this other quote originated from the beginning of Cedo Nulli’s blog post, it better serves as a punchline to describe the consequences of passive selection and endless testing:
I’m single, and continue to be so, because girls fuck up. Every flaking out, every dumb excuse, every little lie, every game, every charade, reduces her credibility and value in my mind. By the time I ‘get her’ it’s just a matter of victory over all the crap. All genuine emotion has long been killed by her bullshit.
This is a large part of Dating 2.0. Instead of a woman actively looking for quality, she’s passively looking through elimination. She finds any almost any reason to reject a man through games, testing, and manipulation. Online dating exacerbates the situation because there’s always another guy’s profile to check out or another message/IM from a guy. Plus, bad dating advice combined with the Greek chorus of well-intended friends encourage passive selection with the “Prince Charming is right around the corner” advice.
Is it any wonder why Cedo Nulli feels so little for these types of women? This kind of passive elimination creates doormats and cads, it does not encourage men of good character. Rather, this repels them.
This is the reason I created this dating exercise for women: Every time a woman sees or interacts with a man, she must find at least one good thing about him. That’s active selection. That dating exercise (link below) can go a long way to shift a woman’s mindset away from passive selection and also see the general goodness that the vast majority of men possess.
To conclude, back to Cedo Nulli with some minor edits on my part:
I can and will not respect a girl who qualifies me as dating potential by smashing my shit on the ground. All she’ll get is the rise of the player who’ll take the challenge and enjoy his fuck trophy. I don’t feel guilty. If you’re not actively choosing me for my qualities but rather for my ability to withstand games and bullshit, that’s all you deserve – games and bullshit.
“Cedo Nulli” roughly means “I yield to none.”
Word.
The Private Man 
Fucking brilliant. And girls wonder how they get into their 30s, bitter, twisted and alone. If girls were serious about ending up with a good man, the first and foremost thing they’d do is be more reliable. Get rid of all the bullshit, and you’ll likely get a quality man to stick around.
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Timely advice that I would follow if I was looking for a life partner. Xox Mariea
Sent from my iPhone
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dude men act the same way. this is more to do with human condition than merely just women.
Yep
Premise is sound but wrong conclusion.
Women sabotage any chance of a real connection not because they are fools who don’t know what they are doing, but because they don’t want a connection.
A apecial connection with any one man disrupts her business model of dating multiple men always going with the best deal on any given evening. Kind of like a never ending auction.
It would be like a hooker falling in love with one of her John. That’s a no no in hypergamy.
You may be on to something here. I’ve browsed enough profiles to figure that all of these women who go on dating sites and claim they’re “just looking for a connection” are actually looking for anything but that. They can get a plethora of connections in the real world. They’re probably really looking for “the best deal on any given evening” because they know that another man’s just an email or bar away. These women know exactly what they’re doing.
I’m reminded of gamblers who won’t quit while they’re ahead because they want more and more money. Eventually they fall hard when the “sure thing” goes bust. They always do.
Agree there is some validity to this argument. Was thinking about this other day in the context of shopping (don’t laugh). I needed a completely new smart-casual wardrobe and initially I went shopping at the stores whose style I liked and are best suited to me. But even that was overwhelming, with all the people buzzing around and the fact there were too many choices.
My solution – go to their online stores, more specifically identify what I wanted and THEN go in-store to buy. In a nutshell, I saw what I liked and then executed. Shopping as a tactical operation.
Women on the other hand do it differently. Endless trying of dozens of outfits and indulging in the process, consciously unaware of the inevitable trade offs and that there is no PERFECT outfit.
Even after they eventually buy something, two weeks later, its wash, rinse, repeat, in part because of that element of their nature where they’re never completely satisfied and constantly second-guessing (hello hypergamy) but also because of the temporary glow of emotions a new bright shiny object brings – the validation, the feelings of desirability, the affirmation of friends telling you how great you look, etc.
Of course over time they rack up a Carrie Bradshaw-esque quantity of clothing and are left with a similar credit card debt and the associated long term financial consequences. And then they are befuddled when they don’t have the funds to invest in there own future.
And just like in the dating market, when they are tired of the cock-carousel and come to their senses that they have completely exised their cock-carousel value, there is a common solution – find a beta chump.
Not getting into a LTR/marriage because you were eliminated for failing a couple of shit tests is like having a friend borrow $100 from you and then never seeing him again — It was worth it.
great depiction of dating 2.0/3.0 it aint pritty out there in the trenches, overheard this girl in the local pub last night who is 28/29 just home from a couple of years travelling, “i just want to settle down” eh ye What have you been doing for the three years??? oh ye thats right finding yourself. Is it just me or do women not understand that what they can get for a ONS is not what they can secure for long term provisioning?? Is this beacuse of Solipsism and Nihilism they cannot diffentiate between SMP and MMP.
The complete sentence should read “finding [herself] full of $1 beers and lower–middle–class semen.”
What is they expect to find?
Has any man reading my words here ever–ever–been introduced to something new and exciting by a woman?
A great book/film/hobby?
Anything?
I’m hardly Roosh but I’ve done well enough.
I’ve dated models, counter–girls, chemists, “artists”, social workers, etc.
And never have I gotten more from them than they’ve gotten from me.
Not once.
Granted, I’ve done a ton more than the average man (which may not be saying much, these days, I admit) but I’m certainly not James Bond.
What do women talk about?
Their men or their children or whatever pop–culture nonsense is painfully unavoidable.
What do they do when they’re with someone?
Whatever the man wants to do or nothing but nesting nonsense.
Ever date a woman that seems cool as Hell at first and a couple months later all she wants to do is sit on the couch and watch TV or complain that you can’t seem to just “enjoy her company”?
In short, what I’m saying is:
95% of women that are “finding themselves” are on a fool’s errand.
I kind of agree with you. Every girl i’ve ever dated is completely enamoured by my vast music collection, my endless dvd/film collection, and how “intellectual” I am. They are so smitten by the adventure in my spirit, how I can travel and go anywhere alone as much as I can go with a group of people. Or the explorer in me always going off and finding weird cool interesting places far away from home.
No woman I ever meet even touches the surface on any of these things. I have been with some that actually do have a respectable music collection, but it never compares to mine. It’s always me swooning them with a mix CD that never fails to blow them away.
Where’s my god damn swoon away mix CD? It ain’t coming!
What’s up with that anyway? How much women are so afraid to travel and explore and go on adventures without a man bringing her along. Don’t give me that rape dangerous nonsense. Yes there are dangers anywhere but nothing is stopping a girl from going alone to a trip to Death Valley (which is a national park) anymore than me. There weren’t any “dangers” that were met on my little journey that would of put any girl in danger at all. I hardly saw any people for one. And for two this is 2012 it’s not the medeival times. Rapists and murders aren’t hiding behind every god damn bush to get their next female victim.
Fact of the matter is I have a better chance of dying in a car accident than any girl out of dying or getting hurt in anyway from a rapist or “predator”.
Why don’t women do these things? Why does their music collection always pale in comparison? Why do they have no adventure in their spirit? Is it because they identify so much with how they look that it becomes a priority overshadowing all this other shit? Perhaps. I’m not really sure.
Maybe this is just how women are?
Guess I’ll never know though. Since equal rights groups won’t allow us to be men and women anymore. Instead women are expected to do everything then men do. And what women do too. Men are expected to just keep doing what men do. And NOT expected (or even demonized) if we do what women do. Wonder what’s going to come of this (other than what I Just spoke about).
“Every girl i’ve ever dated is completely enamoured by my vast music collection, my endless dvd/film collection, and how “intellectual” I am. ” Either they are pretending to be impressed (which sometimes women do) or they are impressed with your intellectualism as they think it reflects well on them. But I would say we women have the dvds and cds we want, we’re just pretending we want yours. If we did we’d have bought them ourselves.
“Why do they have no adventure in their spirit? – some do and some don’t. You know that not all men do either. And you do know that 🙂
or have i misinterpreted your tone as aggressive when really you’re just straight talking?
@ A
The complete sentence should read “finding [herself] full of $1 beers and lower–middle–class semen.”
ye pritty much this only after having half dozen ONS and a few flings and is on the hunt for a husband……. Ill take the private man approach, ill be poolside people…..
@fi – yes they do have the CDs and DVDs they want. My point was that my collection of purchased CDs and DVDs when put up against their bought collection of CDs and DVDs is vastly superior.
I’m not saying I’m a superior person or I’m better than them or more important or anything. I’m just saying in terms of comparing our collections it’s not even a close call.
As far as them pretending to be impressed, why would you say that? How would you know? Just the other day I came in contact with a girl I went on one lousy date with. I think I Met her off of myspace like back YEARS ago back when that shit was cool. I mailed this girl 2 mix CDs (which was like maybe 6 years ago?). Would you even know that this chick still had those 2 CDs and still listened to them. And took the time to tell me till this day they are the best mix CDs she’s ever heard? This just happened a few weeks ago in front of a safeway supermarket here in the town I live in. She’s not alone. I simply just have an awesome eclectic taste in music.
I am not alone in this regard. I’ve read this time and time again and see it with my own eyes that men trump women here all to none in this category. Why?
As far as adventure spirit goes yes I realize some do and some don’t for both men and women. However I should of been more clear…. women do not ACT upon those instincts…. men do. This isn’t 6th century era post-roman collapsed Europe here with barbarian warlords looking to rape and pillage you if you dare step outside the realms of your village. It’s 2012 …. you know …. equal rights .. yadda yadda (
**well except in family court of course. In that case it’s perfectly okay for women to get virtually every right afforded by the law. It is down right unacceptable and actually some would some laughable for a man to get even equal parenting privelges in these court rooms. Men are still just viewed as money machines and not real parents. Gender discrimination is perfectly okay here where family and children are concerned**
I know you aren’t saying men are superior to women and I’m not taking it that way I’m giving you what i think is the truth. you all know that men and women are very different, but you are evaluating women”s decisions against the criteria you use to make yours. And assuming they value the same things you do, and they don’t.
“My point was that my collection of purchased CDs and DVDs when put up against their bought collection of CDs and DVDs is vastly superior. ” This is your opinion and to be honest although there is some cross over men and women often like different types of music. Even if all your male friends think your music is better it really doesn’t matter. The point I was trying to make is that if the women genuinely thought your music and dvd selection was better they’d go out and buy it for themselves.
As far as them pretending to be impressed, why would you say that? How would you know? ”
Ahahaha. All those girls that enjoyed going to football matches with you (if you were British) when you were growing up, suddenly started to learn to play the guitar because you did, developed an interest in World of Warcraft because you played it. I’m not saying they were always pretending but if they demonstrated no interest before hand and interest dropped off after you’d split up, or even towards the end of your time together…..that’s what women often do. Its a way of getting you to like them, and share time with you.
“Just the other day I came in contact with a girl I went on one lousy date with. I think I Met her off of myspace like back YEARS ago back when that shit was cool. I mailed this girl 2 mix CDs (which was like maybe 6 years ago?). Would you even know that this chick still had those 2 CDs and still listened to them.”
So she said. She might be telling the truth because she did like them. Or maybe she liked you.
“I am not alone in this regard. I’ve read this time and time again and see it with my own eyes that men trump women here all to none in this category. Why?” Again – all i can say is that if these women really thought all men’s music was better than theirs, and they were compeltely ignorant of what music was around and therefore not exposed to it till they encountered your excellent music taste, then they would simply go out and buy what was on your shelf all the time after hearing it. i bet they don’t though.
“As far as adventure spirit goes yes I realize some do and some don’t for both men and women. However I should of been more clear…. women do not ACT upon those instincts…. men do. This isn’t 6th century era post-roman collapsed Europe here with barbarian warlords looking to rape and pillage you if you dare step outside the realms of your village. It’s 2012 …. you know …. equal rights .. yadda yadda (”
No that’s true however again you are judging women by men’s standards. Leaving aside all the boring women who don’t want to do that sort of thing (and there are a lot) women don’t weigh up the odds of say getting attacked walkign down a dark lane at night and decide its worth the risk – women just don’t do it because they’re scared of it happening even if the risk is small. And we’re brought up to be concerned about our safety so equally we don’t want to get in a strangers car, or go to someone’s house that we don’t know, or speak to strange men etc etc. You may think the risk is small but women are brought up to avoid it. And in terms of doing things like going on holiday on their own, well women tend to be more sociable than men and prefer activities which involve engaging with other people – which is why we are told we talk too much – and doing stuff on our own isn’t often viewed as much fun. I tend to do a lot of stuff on my own but i would say most women don’t. I’m not saying one is better than the other, simply that you can’t evaluate women against the criteria you evaluate men as its like comparing apples and koala bears.
**well except in family court of course. In that case it’s perfectly okay for women to get virtually every right afforded by the law. It is down right unacceptable and actually some would some laughable for a man to get even equal parenting privelges in these court rooms. Men are still just viewed as money machines and not real parents. Gender discrimination is perfectly okay here where family and children are concerned**
I agree and its very bad
@fi
See your argument doesn’t hold up. Basing off of your theory, ALL music is subjective. So someone who has a vast collection of music from around the globe dating back to when music was able to be recorded in the early 20th century till today could have lesser music collection than my friend shame who listens to nothing but heavy metal. To his heavy metal friends Shane is the winner. While the guy who has a much more broad and eclectic music collection would win the votes of everyone else on the planet (including women!), to Shane’s head banger friends Shane is the triumphant far away champion of music.
Fact is it doesn’t matter what Shane’s friends think. Fact is the guy with the vast music has a better collection. It doesn’t matter that Shane does not appreciate Handel’s “violin sonata in D major” or A Tribe Called Quests self titled debut or Gang Of Fours “Entertainment!” Or not. He certainly isn’t going to go buy them. Doesn’t matter. The guy with the vastly superior music collection is clear to everyone reading this without even hearing the music based on diversity alone.
Using that same argument, if I’m dating a girl and all she listens to is top40 garbage with a few indie rock CDs and some hip hop and might insist on always playing “that blind black guy who isn’t Stevie wonder” (yes I dated a chick who called ray Charles the blind black guy who isn’t Stevie wonder and owned one of his CDs), and I had a vastly more diverse and eclectic music collection, my collection is superior. It’s not even a matter that’s up for discussion.
The reason she doesn’t go out and buy or attain this music is because she (or most women) do not concern themselves with it. They aren’t exposed to it and generally don’t care that much. They have other interests (usually) that aren’t nearly to the level that I literally obsess about when it comes to music. I go through phases where ill be obsessed with a form of classical music called “Baroque” and read all about it for weeks. Then I’ll suddenly switch that and get into ambient techno (otherwise known as shoegazing or IDM) and read all about it, the pioneers of the movement, etc etc. not only do I have all the music, I learn all the little things about the people who are behind it. I’m a little over the top when it comes to this shit but its just how I am.
For you to sit there and tell me some girl who listens to nothing but strictly chick music has a better music collection because its subjective is just flat out wrong. If my daughter just ate potsto chips all day because she likes them, does that mean she has a great sense of a balanced diet because she says potato chips are good and that’s all she needs? No. She’s wrong. She needs vegetables, grains, fruits, meat, some dairy, etc etc.
Get me?
Your argument about the adventure is coming from this same view point in trying to say its completely subjective. No it’s not. If I act upon my impulses and go on adventures and women don’t, then that’s a problem for them. My entire post was simply asking WHY do you women get so wrapped up in mundane things and not go on adventures on concern yourself with awesome music, the complexities in life that make me happy. I don’t know what you are arguing or where you’re trying to go with this.
Actually it’s kind of funny because the way your approaching this is from a non logical viewpoint, very typical of a woman. Sometimes when I’m trying to explain how to get from point a to point b to a girl and I say:
“walk straight from point a to point b”
That same girl will somehow want to make it more complicated than it actually is, and infer things and say something like….
“point c needs to be discussed cornelius. because point d is after point b on the left. And what if we get tired, there is a rest stop at point r way down the road. And you know my girlfriend Brenda once said that she hates point b so we might want to consider not even going to point b at all. Katie said she thinks this whole thing is unsafe. Oh and bring my cell phone so I can call fi on the way in case I get lost yaddayadda yadda yaddayadda” lol
Cashdollar. I’m not arguing. I couldn’t care less about getting into an argument over something so stupid. I was just giving you my opinion. If you don’t agree or want to hear it then i’m fine with that too, equally I couldn’t care less.
@fi
Thank you! Now go back to iTunes and get back to playing your Lady Gaga album for christ sake. lol
Besides, if this is suddenly “so stupid” why did you reply in the first place? I certainly wouldn’t of wasted my time discussing anything that you think is “so stupid”.
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This satire nails it:
“Jackpot! Let’s do this!” Excellent find, Ace.
Thanks, MJB.
I posted it to my blog a few months ago but I don’t get near the traffic TPM does so I felt I should put it out there when apropos.
@ Cashdoller
Where the hell to you find women actually interested in anything other than TOP 40 music and big budget Hollywood crap? Hell I live close to Seattle and the closed mindedness for this supposed musical mecca never ceases to astound me.
@Society
I don’t really…but when I introduce them to it, they like it and get into it.
Actually that is unfair to say because I’ve met some girls with some really awesome tastes of music. But most of the time it is limited to rock and/or pop music that is popular among people of my generation. They are never seriously into classical, old punk, indie rap, 1930s ragtime jazz, chicago style blues, latin jazz, …like SERIOUSLY into all of it and own the albums …. stuff like that.
This probably goes beyond just women because I’m a music freak, but girls by and large easily hands down lose the competiiton among the genders when it comes to ones music tastes and library. I have definitely met a couple dudes that can rival I couldn’t really judge though who has a “better” collection. At that point it does become much more subjective. But it’s hard to take anyones music library as a real serious heavyweight contender for example if it’s completely lacking in any classical music. You simply can’t ignore where music began and expect me to take it serious. Personal opinion.
But about the women in the artist burning man community I’ve met a few chicks with a good taste in music. But again this is usually limited to electronica and all forms of it. (which I love, but there is more to music than electronic music).
I find it funny most people I meet when you ask them what they listen to more times than not they say “everything”. When in fact, “everything” is hardly anything close to describing their library. “Everything” to a hipster would be every living rare unknown indie rock album in the universe. There is more to life than just that form of music. They will sprinkle a little rap and r&b and classic rock into the mix and think they own “everything but country”. Ummm no… actually you are missing a hell of a lot more than country bud. lol
Huh man maybe you just have better luck than me. My music collection isn’t quite as vast as yours.. I grew up playing in band so I do appreciate classical and jazz and I was raised on pre 60’s country thanks to the grandparents. As far as my personal collection goes the majority is Metal and Punk, but also Post Rock, Psychobilly,Rockabilly, Pop Punk, Grunge, etc (64gb worth all, cd’s were stolen 5 years ago ugh).. I have very little artists that have ever gotten any radio or MTV airplay… I stay focused on those genres because I play guitar and drums tend to focus on certain things, but yeah even supposed “rocker” chicks or whatever have little interest in hearing new shit around here.. it seems what ever band is currently underground yet trendy with some hawt guy on vocals is all that matters.
Same thing with movies. I’ve got like 900 dvds that are like 60% cult horror films from the 60’s to the 80’s and the rest are Martial Arts movies. I’ve got a PAL-NTSC converterDVD player and have some pretty cool shit, and again it dosen’t seem there’s much interest generated.
@society – dude you have all “guy” music. You gotta swoon her in with more than just “guy” music. lol ….
my favorite movie of all time is a movie called “Rushmore” …. the soundtrack that went with it is a perfect example of the type of music to put on a mix CD if you want to get pussy. They go oodles for that shit. They don’t want to hear “guy” music anymore than you want to hear “chick” music.
By “chick” music I mean girls who primarily are only into chick shit like Alicia Keys, Natalie Imbruglia, John Mayer, Adele, Regina Spektor, Nelly Furtado, Avril Lagrine, Dido, Jason Mraz, Justin Timberlake, Kelly Clarkson …. etc etc
(Note that all the listed chick music is just exclusively female. It’s a sound more than a gender. But it is mostly female).
I’m not particually into chick music myself but I can get down to a song or two or Alicia Keys or something … but hardly anything I give much airtime to.
so I can go out and get chucked against the ground in the hopes of catching 30 kinds of herpes, or I can stay home with the desktop and experience all the pleasures the human imagination can beam through a fiber optic wire.
that’s where the good men have gone. they went home and reclined their chairs.
I’ll be poolside.
Private, what do you mean by following tweet – are you saying females hate you either way whether you try to game them or not lol? Thanks…
“Women merely hate men who try to seduce them. Women have vile and loathsome contempt for men who don’t try to seduce them. RT, please.”
Women hate men. It’s just that simple.
no they don’t. That’s entirely silly to even come to such a conclusion.
You should all know there are 2 types of women in America:
Group A) women who had shitty fathers. <– RUN AWAY FROM THESE ONES
This group A woman is who you are talking about. These are also all the women beamed through your wire you watch to jack off in porn. Every single 100% girl in your porn comes from these fucked up bitches. AVoid like the plague. They are only good to fuck. End of story.
Group B) women who had great fathers <– keepers
I don't seem to attract these types probably because I'm a fucking nut myself. So I've come to the conclusion that it's me at this point. But regardless these group B women are actually wonderful well put together individuals usually lacking in any of the aforementioned personality disorders so regularly found among all the women in Group A. And they come in non-fatty version too. Plenty to go around believe me of these group B women. In fact they walk by you everyday all the time. Problem is you're ignoring them because you are (like me) probably so used to being attracted to these fucking headcases in group A that these women in group B are invisible to you.
“Women hate men” – may I suggest this deserves its own Post, Private Man.
Might I suggest some jumping off points:
Do women hate men inherently because they are the weaker sex?
Or do women hate men more because of social brainwashing of how misogynistic men are combined with wildly false inflated self-perceptions of themselves?
How do you fuck people who, at root, basically hate you?
How can you carry on ANY kind of an interaction with people who hate you? Is the answer to tease them and “lay into them” more or less relentlessly (Maybe this is what they secretly think they DESERVE..)
How do you explain the rare men who seem to know the ugliness of women, yet still “love them” and can’t imagine existence without them (Heartiste)
A great father is not a reliable indicator. The mother can still be a raving nutbag. Women by default are crazy, deluded and irrational. Female sexuality is uncontrolled hypergamy. Me, me, me. So treat them like the emotional children they are.
Fathers do not have a chance in contemporary culture. Mommy outsources child care from as little as six weeks old. The schools with their legion of female teachers continue the indoctrination. You are great, they tell girls. You are unhelpful, they tell boys, before drugging them with amphetamines.
I don’t know man, think about what you’re saying. Do you think a great father is going to be married to a fucking nutbag? It gets passed down generation to generation.
Good rock solid families stay together, have good rock solid children, and then they get married and the process begins over again.
All these narcissistic bitches you are referring to had fucked up fathers. If the mother is fucked up, the great father wouldn’t be there in the first place.
I guess i should also add the father has to play a significant part of the girls life.
Actually let me reword the criterion — it’s pretty simple actually— she must call him “Daddy” and not Dad or some other name. Aside from her being a rich little princess, any normal girl that calls her father “Daddy” as an adult more than likely is girlfriend material.
I know it sounds insane but it’s just very true.
Try it.
If she says she is closer to her father than anyone in her life, just stop what you are doing and propose to her on the spot. End of story.
How fucked up a girl is is pretty much 100% dependent upon how much love and affection and bond she had with the first man that laid the foundation upon which she bases exactly what love is.
I am a sole custody single father by the way and have a 10 year old daughter I’ve been raising entirely alone since she was 2 years old. No one but me, not even my mom or aunts uncles they are all on the east coast.
How’s my daughter doing? She’s confident, outgoing, smart, well read, funny, happy, smart, content, inquisitive, curious, intense, adventure seeker (because we’ve been everywhere together from Yosemite to volcanos to underwater caves to hidden beaches to 5000 ft redwood forests, you name it). She’s about as rock solid a little girl as you’ll find. I’m lucky to have such an interesting kid. I take partial responsibility for her being so awesome. But most of it comes from her just being a kickass kid. My role is just to enable those qualities to shine.
Unfortunately most women with shitty fathers have no basis upon which to judge or view men other than the random dumb fucks she meets in her life. Without that foundation, she is constantly seeking it in the wrong places. Those sluts in high school remember them? We all knew who they were. None of them had a great father. Not one.
TPM, I think Cashdoller is making sense. Come to think of it, the worst relationships I had were with women without a strong presence of a father in their lives. As a matter of fact, they boasted that their mothers were their ‘best friend’. In other words, they would bring home almost every month a new boyfriend and the moms would just accept it without having a serious talk to the daughters. And I won’t even touch the subject of how they dump the guys.
Thund3rx. I think this is right. I know women who say they are their daughter’s “best friend” and their children “mean everything to me” and they always have dysfunctional lives. I’m not my kids’ friend, I’m their mother as I don’t want to have the sort of relationship with them they have with their friends, I want to have parenting one. And guess what? My kids are normal, have jobs, and are in steady long term relationships. And kids need to have parents they respect and confidence to make their own decisions, and they won’t have those without boundaries and being told what is and isn’t acceptable. They also need good fathers, or at the very least good father figures, as without them boys don’t learn how to be a good man and girls don’t learn what behaviour to expect from a good man. And that’s when it all goes off the rails.
@fi
every child needs good parents.
This was not my point.
Of the 4 combinations (mother/daughter, mother/son, father/son, father/daughter), hands DOWN the most crucial of those 4 in terms of predicting how fucked up the adult child will be is father/daughter.
And there is no contest here.
I’m not saying the other 4 combinations aren’t important. A child with 2 good parents clearly has a better chance at a great life than a child with 1.
But the other 4 combinations have a shooting chance if raised by a single parent in life. The boy raised by either just a mother or just a father has a chance because he’s simply a boy. He is by nature the more dominant figure. He does not have to deal with girls coming on to him of every walk of life and not seeing the “good” ones. We have to go out and get the girl, that’s our role. We aren’t the hunted.
A girl raised by just a father (such as my case) and assuming the father is a good parent has a very good chance in life. Our caretakers, teachers, relatives who take the time to write and mail gifts, the nurturers around us, our babysitters, THEY ARE ALL WOMEN. I just have to sneeze and a female role model line is piling up at my door. Such is NOT the case with men. For better or for worse (I’m not saying this is a GOOD thing, it’s just the way it is in our culture).
I lay the foundation for men and the basis through which she expects and knows to be loved, the plethora of women in the world lay the foundation for women feminine shit, and my daughter will go and be successful I guarantee it.
A girl raised by just a mom? Fucked for life 90%+ of the time. Doesn’t matter how great the mother is. Without a male role model, she will be the high school slut, the lost soul, someone who doesn’t know who to look for for companionship, always seeking it in the wrong places, unable to know what its like to be loved by a man of quality, always falling for the wrong shitty alpha male (like the one in the comments Dom).
FIrst date first thing I ask a girl is how is her relationship with her father. I hate to be so low and judgmental but I base a lot on this. The better the relationship with her father is basically how serious I will take the relationship with her any further. The rule works as well of an indicator of how fucked up she will be in the same way it would be to ask a college student how well they did on their final and judging it on how much they studied that semester. Sure 1 or 2 students out of a 100 are just genius and will ace the final regardless. But 99 times out of 100 success if easily predicted by how much the student studied and did on the quizzes throughout the semester.
Cashdollar. Girls need a good father FIGURE, a good male rodel. It doesn’t have to be the biological father. But boys need a good female role model too. There are plenty of unbalanced men around with odd attitudes to women who don’t have healthy balanced relationships with women because their mother was odd. Maybe she was domineering, or manipulative, or a martyr and tried to make everyone feel guilty, but they don’t produce normal folk either. My point is that kids really do need healthy relationships with people of both sexes – you sound like you’re a fantastic dad but you need to be aware that how you respond to the women that come into your life will also be teaching your daughter something about men.
@fi
I’m not going to argue that. I was raised by a single mother and had no father and I’m 34 without a partner at all. After I left my daughters mother after a 3 year relationship I haven’t had anyone I’d call my “girlfriend” and nothing go past a few months. This is of course more to do with me than the collective amount of women I’ve dated. This was 8 years ago for fuck sake. I’ve not really invested much effort into dating anymore for various reasons (notably money issues which makes dating women impossible. I’m for the first time in my life unemployed and I’m raising a kid all WITH a child support obligation that I am unable to keep … read: lose license, lose liberty, levy my accounts, threaten jail… yep).
however…this was not my point.
I am not saying any of the parental relationships are marginal or discrediting them. I am saying that the father-daughter relationship is by and large the easiest predictor of future success in a young childs life.
How fucked up or how well a woman is put together is so easily gauged by her relationship with her father it’s uncanny. You simply can’t ignore the fact that this one factor plays into essentially every women I’ve ever met and how grounded they are. There are occsiaonal exceptions but VERY rare. And I probably just dont know enough about them to really judge anyhow. But the ones that I do it’s like a golden rule.
You can’t say the same automatic judgements for mother-son, mother-daughter, or father-son …. the rule simply isn’t as cut and dry with those other 3 combinations … for the reasons I listed above.
Quite possibly but I’d need to give a lot of thought to whether the role of the father or mother is more significant to a child, irrespective of its sex, and consider the ways each parent contributes to the child’s development, and look at some evidence of outcomes over a large number of examples, over a long period of time with a control group in order to agree with you. My point (which is a different one from yours and not contradicting you) is that both parents (or mother and father figures if the biological ones aren’t around) provide the child with a model of what it means to be a male or female, how relationships work, and how to behave and I think kids need good role models of both sexes to function successfully in the world. I think you make good points in what you say here, and you are obviously observant and give thought before reaching conclusions that broadly I agree with, the only bit I question is your assumption that those apply in the overwhelming majority of cases, if not all. As an example my music collection contains country, disco, The Clash, The Jam, Pink Floyd, classical music and jazz, not Lady Gaga and Alicia Keys.
@fi
First of all the music you listed is a reference to what I said earlier? First of all I was joking about the lady gaga bit. Read: humor.
However your claim to own 4 genres you label country, disco, classical, jazz in addition to 3 artists identifiable as punk, post punk, and classic rock respectively is your attempt to prove how eclectic your collection is?
Come on you don’t “own” country, disco, classical, or jazz just because you May happen to have a randy Travis cd floating around, an old Donna summers cd under your couch, some random “best classical music sonatas” cassette tape in your car, and a Louis Armstrong mp3 on your hard drive somewhere that you downloaded from naps tear in 1998. Doesn’t count.
Because if you were truly into those 4 areas of music, you’d not label them like that. You’d tell me the form of classical music and the era and the composer (and even the orchestra who did the recording, although I personally don’t even go that far). You’d right off the bat tell me which form of country music you like because the music off of “o brother so art thou” is a he’ll of a lot different than the country from Leann rymes.
I’m betting you are into classic rock, some grunge like smashing pumpkins, a few indie rock bands like white stripes and the strokes, maybe some synthesized indie pop stuff like Phoenix, you love radiohead, you hate kid rock, and you like led zeppelin but you’re sick of hearing their music. I bet you even listen to snoop Dogg when black people aren’t around. (Don’t worry we all do).
That means you are into classic rock music, alternative, and general rock music.
But I bet you have something to say about that. Lol
Regarding what you say about control groups and all that other shit, for real? If that was your thoughts on the subject you could and should apply that to every single argument you have on the Internet if it happens to include sociology and/psychology among people. Come on.
I don’t know whynyoy keep wanting to bring up why 2 parents are important and watering down the basis behind my very insightful theory. I am not denying 2 parents are important. Nor do I deny the fact that we need air to breathe or water to drink or food to eat to live. But I do think we have a better chance at a healthy prolonged life if we breath good air and don’t live next to a coal factory.
If I went river rafting every weekend and had 5 paths to take, 1 was easy, 3 were somewhat difficult and 1 was filled with rocks and the current was extreme. People always wind up dying when I go down the 5th path. If I told you my theory is that people die on the 5th path because its more rocky with a much stronger current compared to the other 4 (and you seen videos and heard stories from fiends who have been there), would you still need to test it out for yourself with a control group? or would you keep telling me that it’s not the path it’s the rider of the raft?
Cashdollar. I surrender.
Making a mix cd of chick music… should’ve known…
haha dude John Lennon, The Faces, The Creation, The Who, The KInks, Unit 4 + 2 , …. this is not chick music. Not even close. It’s like comparing a glass of water with a helium filled balloon.
It can best be described as garage rock, classic rock, singer/songwriter, british invasion era music …. it’s whimsical and happy and peppy and optimisic type music..
but what makes the soundtrack the true gem that it is is that all of the tunes are (until this album was released) obscurities that you wouldn’t of otherwise listened to … even the songs by the more popular bands and musicians like The Who And John Lennon were practically long lost tunes down the memory hole until they refound themselves here on this soundtrack.
I get what you’re saying but that’s just obscure songs of well known bands.It seems to be more difficult to find females interested in obscure bands.
just the fact that they are obscure doesn’t make them good. In fact most songs and bands that are “obscure” completely suck. That is why they are obscure.
It’s the picking out the diamonds in the rough. In this case I pointed out this album in particular because it doesn’t fit the mold of what you listen to. It’s the kind of music that boys and girls can both equally listen to and appreciate. In other words in the kind of music that will land you some pussy brother. Take it from the king of mix CDdom. I can honestly thank my mix CDs gifted to females over the years more than anything for landing me my next piece of ass. lol ….
Remember the publishing clearinghouse? My friends used to compare a female getting a mix CD from me to that of watching Ed McMahon walkin up to your door. You know what he’s bringing and just him walking up you get all excited with each step he inches closer. lol
“just the fact that they are obscure doesn’t make them good. In fact most songs and bands that are “obscure” completely suck. That is why they are obscure.”
Wrong,especially in America, were marketability trumps talent almost every time..at least since the 70’s.. Not to mention half of the musicians you listed under “chick” music are auto-tuned singers. Blech!
Obscure was a bad word choice on my part. I shouldn’t say I listen to obscure bands, I listen to a lot of international bands and bands on smaller labels. Bands where the musicianship is pushed as far as they can take it along side stuff that’s easy to sing along to when the mood changes.
I’d agree with that, you’re right. (about the music labels)
i’ve noticed amongst us males “musicianship” seems to be music snobby people count as this very important thing to have if one is to even be considered decent music.
I actually though don’t really place much importance though on musicianship at all. I actually think good music can be derived from a band or solo musician whether they have this “musicanship” quality or not. Sometimes I even prefer them NOT to have musicianship because I’m not in the mood for that shit.
Example would be new wave and post punk, the two forms of 80s music that both took their roots in original punk music. (like the ramons, the clash, sex pistols, etc). I love all of it. New wave and post punk, which is new waves underground brother at the time. Post punk incluides bands like Gang of Four, the fall, talking heads, sonic youth, bands like that. They were the “underground” at the time…..(this eventually evolved into “indie rock” where new wave would evolve into pop).
Anyway some would argue that post punk had this “musicianship” quality and new wave was just this radio played garbage worthy of no mention with anyone who regards real music. But I actually enjoy both equally. Just because new wave can be taken as this happy gay cheery overplayed top40 be bop crap doesn’t just mean it’s unlikeable.
I never said all top 40 was all garbage or that singer songwriters suck, but auto tune does suck and people that don’t write their own stuff just lack feeling unless the performer has some serious skills. Which ironically, while I dig musicianship, more often then not I find trained musicians to write less interesting music… my theory is they too rigidly follow a mindset of how music “should” be. What happens is the music written is predictable and lacks any real tension or release. IMO a lot of bands sound the same.. I just like to dig deep to find bands that write quality music that is also unique…that can also be derived from rhythm, melodic sensibility, vocal style, tempo changes and dynamics.
More often than not even a woman who claims to like a bunch of genres listens to the top 10 current bands of each at most and seems uninterested in going beyond that.
Anyways I didn’t mean to start an argument I just figured there was something I was missing that could help me out in this dept but since the advice is to make mix cds of music that chicks like.. well…yeah
I think the advice here is not to make a mix CD of music that chicks like… make a mix CD of music that men and women collectively like.
I kind of get the sense you are labeling the music off of Rushmore chick music? It’s not anything at all resembling chick music. I don’t even think any one band or members of the bands on any of the songs on the album are female. The soundtrack was put together from a male and I’m a male too. I’d agree maybe someone like Cat Stevens could me considered chick music maybe. But again that depends on the song. It would be shortsighted to just view the song chosen on this album from Cat Stevens “Here comes my baby” as a chick song because its from his very first album. It’s more like a light pop driven british invasion type song and nothing sounding like a typical radio played Cat Stevens song. The other Cat song is The Wind which is less than 2 minutes and really just fits in perfect with the album.
IF you simply don’t like it and it’s a little too lacking manliness, go with something a little more edge perhaps, get inspiration from the Pulp Fiction soundtrack. That again has songs that are good for men and women ….and will land you pussy. Another disgustingly awesome soundtrack with crazy good music.
I actually tried this passive elimination test over the summer. It backfired in my face, and my date managed to completely terrify me. I understand why men perceive it as stupid, but I can’t help feeling like it helped me. I had noticed some odd behavior previously that I wasn’t sure about, so I started the passive elimination tests on him. It was either that or immediate elimination. But, I can’t help feeling that my tests also further prompted his bad behavior. Either way, it was a terrible experience. Dating isn’t easy for women either. There are many men who have no other interest than getting all of the fringe benefits of a relationship without giving anything in return. Being used that way doesn’t appeal to me as I suspect it doesn’t appeal to most women. And I have noticed that these men are very clever at what they do. In turn, this requires women to become even more clever. It’s the red queeen theory or an evolutionary arms race between the sexes.
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