The Private Man

Attraction and dating information for all men

Reader Mailbag – Dating Younger Women

This excellent email arrived recently:

I’ve been reading your blog regularly since its inception and enjoy your posts.  We are kindred spirits, what with you approaching 50 [I’m now 50 – ed.] and myself having spent almost 54 years on this ball of dust we call home.  I’ve noticed, in my study of charisma/game, that on first blush it appears to be a young man’s sport.  In fact, on some forums it would appear the “players” regard themselves as over the hill after the ripe old age of 35.  But as you and I both know, inside of every young buck is an older gentleman who will eventually get out.  And, as we also know, some men of a certain age refuse to accept anything less than a willing woman of a significantly lesser age.  This begs the question:  how low can an older guy go?

The reader’s email goes on to describe his preferences in women and his relationship expectations (no LTR, just “dating”). He also describes himself because he knows he must bring something to the table. In summary, he’s tall, fit, dresses well, and [insert drum roll]… he’s an emergency room doctor.

That’s right, he’s a physician.

He also sent a couple of photos that shows he’s not a bad-looking gentleman, full head of grayish hair and nothing terrible about his face.

The conventional wisdom states that a guy should never chase women younger than half his age plus seven years. Here’s some unconventional wisdom: A guy should pursue any adult woman whom he can catch, regardless of age. When a middle-age gent is seen with a much younger and attractive woman, it says to the world he has value to [insert drum roll]… younger and attractive women. Sure, women his own age will heap derision on him and his “dates” (Fiona, please pick up the white courtesy phone), but that is not relevant to his romantic life. Nothing says social proof more than a young, attractive woman on a man’s arm.

On the surface, this guy has all the qualifications to be a true silver fox with younger women. If he has real Charisma, he could certainly be successfully pursuing women in their late 20s. His Charisma must be really, really tight – from appearance to personal interactions with everyone. His confidence must be totally bullet proof. Most important of all, he must be completely and utterly outcome independent with women. His demeanor and frame must be based on knowing that there is a complete female abundance at his beck and call.

As a doctor, he’ll get a fair share of gold-diggers but as he’s not looking for a long-term relationship, he just has to be careful about batshit crazy girls. All the women he “dates” will likely think they can score a commitment from him. Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. Given his profession, a scorned batshit crazy woman could truly wreak havoc on his life.

For the record, Charisma is not just a young man’s game. It must be applied to any man who wants to have successful relationships with women in his life, regardless of age.

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96 thoughts on “Reader Mailbag – Dating Younger Women

  1. Speaking as a woman who was once young and gorgeous, I never once thought mmmm….old men with their wrinkly skin and paunches and boring conversations. That’s exactly what I’m looking for! Nor did anyone I know. Nope, it was ‘creepy pervert old enough to be my dad’. You don’t have the stamina to keep a young woman satisfied sexually the way a younger man does so any younger woman involved with an older man does so because the man has something else she wants that overcomes these feelings. And its not your personality. Now I have no problem with you getting involved with younger women, but let’s not pretend its because you’re you. You know only too well that were this bloke a shop assistant he wouldn’t stand a chance with them. Remember when you were young, did your girlfriends fancy your dad? No. They probably didn’t even register that he was a man and if they did, it was as an old man.

    • LostSailor on said:

      Oh, Fiona. Your bitterness is showing.

      While it is true that paunchy, wrinkly, boring middle-aged men are quite unlikely to pull hot women in their 20s, as TPM indicated, that’s not who we’re talking about. Fit, interesting middle-aged men who take care of themselves, who dress well, show a little style, project a demeanor of witty playfulness, and (wait for it…) charisma can indeed pull much younger attractive women.

      And while TPM rightly points out that if that man is looking for short-term relationships, it doesn’t matter what the woman’s motivations are, that doesn’t address the myriad errors in your comment. Obviously, there may be young gold-diggers and women with daddy issues that will date an older man, but the charismatic man will have his fun and move on undamaged and unconcerned. However, there are plenty of non-neurotic young women who will date an older, charismatic man because (wait for it…) they’re attracted to them. The charismatic man knows that she ain’t gonna mingle if she ain’t got that tingle, and he knows how to build attraction and leaven it with comfort to win her heart…or at least her bed.

      The charismatic man who has delved deeply into the crimson arts will be able to satisfy her just fine. Younger men may or may not have more stamina, but the older, charismatic man has knowledge and skill. And the fit charismatic man will have plenty of stamina.

      I’m 52 and in one of the most ruthless (though target-rich) dating markets there are: Manhattan. But since my separation and divorce, I’ve dropped 45 lbs, hit the gym, and updated my wardrobe; my blond hair effectively hides what little gray there is; and I take care of myself such that I don’t have many wrinkles. Having studied charisma these recent years, I realized that I already had many of the traits of the charismatic man when I was dating in my 20s and only had to help them re-emerge. Now, being outcome indifferent, I have a twinkle in my eye, a witty remark on my tongue, and while I haven’t yet pulled a 20-something, I have successfully dated a number of women in their early 30s. I’ve had no trouble satisfying them, as at least one instance of broken bed furniture would attest.

      And, at the risk of deepening your bitterness, I also recently dated a woman 2 years my senior for a couple of months. But she was fit, charming, graceful, feminine, and didn’t take herself too seriously. There might be a lesson there…

    • DC Phil on said:

      So, riffing on one of your earlier comments, you said that I’m “in my prime.” You’d concur with this:

      1. 6′ 1″
      2. slim with slightly muscular build
      3. dark, penetrating eyes
      4. short-cropped salt and peppery hair (but thinning a bit)
      5. “classically” masculine features
      6. dresses well
      7. two masters’ degrees

      So far, the youngest I’ve dated was 26; the youngest I’ve bedded, 28.

    • Miss_Fu on said:

      I’ll certainly disagree with this. I’m 27 and I’ve always been attracted to older men, even as a teenager. Maybe it’s because I’m the daughter of immigrants or because there is a stark age difference between my parents, but I find the confidence older men have appealing. Recently, I took a certification course and the instructor was 51-year old doctor: 6’2″, balding, pot-bellied, chain smoker with bad teeth and a heavy Eastern European accent. Initially, I thought he was kind of gross. But he had a nonchalant attitude and would tease me and the other young women in the class a lot, enough that they (okay, me too) would start competing for his attention. By that time I was familiar enough with game to see that he was a natural at it, but I became attracted to him anyway.
      Most women my age will agree with you, Fi, and say that they don’t like older men (I’ve been called weird for my preference). But I’ve seen enough of the opposite to not believe them when they say it.

      • DC Phil on said:

        Could be a cultural thing, too. It’s been said before that younger women of certain nationalities (read: Eastern European and Asian) like older men because they know that, on the whole, older men are more confident, established, and mature than men their own age. It’s characteristic of North American culture to see huge age gaps as perverse, even with men who are older and who take care of themselves where they look younger than they are.

    • –“Speaking as a woman who was once young and gorgeous…”–

      Apparently you are neither any more.

      –“You know only too well that were this bloke a shop assistant he wouldn’t stand a chance with them.”–

      That speaks more poorly about the shallow hypergamy of young women today than it does about men.

  2. Fi, you’re saying these things because you’re supposed to as part of the overall social expectation amongst women. But those are just words and you need to say them to feel better about yourself and insult older guys. Now you’ve got that out of your system, you can sit down and have some lovely tea and scones. Ghastly weather, no? Oh, I prefer the scones without raisins, but thanks. Three lumps of sugar, no milk, ta.

    Have you forgotten that we’re talking about a tall, fit, potentially charismatic doctor? Because he’s not looking for a long term relationship, who cares what young women see in him? He’s getting what he wants in the form of physically intimate companionship with young women to whom he has no intent of committing to. I am quite pleased to give this man advice so he can fulfill his relationship goals. You go, boy!

    Also, your comment is going to earn you some scathing personal attacks from my less diplomatic readers. I’m not going to moderate those comments.

    • That’s ok. I’m just saying it as I see it, from the position of someone who was chased incessantly by older men. And that’s what I thought. You have no idea how as a young woman you can’t go anywhere, not up to the counter in a bar or cafe, get on a bus, walk along the street without being approached by men. You learn to avoid all eye contact in the hope that they’ll leave you alone. It was bad enough when it was young men but with older men I just used to think why? Why? Do you think I’d want you with your pot belly and softening flabby bodies? Young men, someone who I had something in common with who liked the same things as me, yes. I think if older men want younger women that’s ok, if they get them that’s ok. I’m just saying its not because you’re you, it’s because you offer something else. But you know that – its why the only old men with young women are the rich or powerful ones. The lecturer and student say.

      • Gentlemen, this is what happens when we don’t educate our daughters about the realities of human sexuality. Someone apparently misinformed poor Fi that you can’t be selectively attractive only to those people who you want to. You can be attractive and attract everyone, or not attractive and attract no one. And if you are attractive, you will be approached by men of all ages, social groups, and ethnicities.

        No, it’s not a matter of what you want. You can want to be attractive or not. But just as the poor schlubby Omega you cringe from is thinking Why? Why don’t you want me? What’s wrong with me? as he is brutally rejected for the Xteenth time because he can’t help being unattractive, a pretty girl has to learn to live with the advances of men because she can’t help it.

        And why should she? Do we as a culture come to the rescue of an Omega male because he doesn’t like rejection? Not unless we need tech support. So why should we come to the Beta female who feels uncomfortable because, yes, Virginia, she has a vagina?

        Perhaps if someone had sat you down and spoken plainly about the realities of human sexuality, so that you could anticipate and learn to cope with these things early on, you might not have felt so bad. But instead someone told you the lie that only the cute guys would like you, which gave your Hamster everything it needed to reject and avoid any “non-cute” boys as creeps — because if a boy likes you and you don’t like him, you will rationalize any and all of his behavior in such a way as to present him as a “creep”.

        Which is as fair as calling a pretty girl a “slut” just because she’s pretty.

        Am I getting anywhere?

      • Yeah yeah yeah. Because obviously if I don’t agree with you it follows that I’m bitter. And I deserve whatever insults you think appropriate. I’ve noticed this before about some of the commentators here, its like being accused of being a witch in the 17th century – you are one, so we’ll put you in the ducking stool and drown you. If you drown of course then, too bad unfortunately you weren’t a witch, however it doesn’t make us question our belief that there are witches. It’s no skin off my nose if you believe things about women and live by those beliefs- what do I care what you think? I’m not going out with any of you, I don’t care what you do or think – you could shag farmyard animals for all I care about it. However if not agreeing with the standard opinion here lays people open to insults then you’ll simply drive away alternative viewpoints and perpetuate a very narrow range of beliefs. Which would I think be sad because I do love to read what people here think as its interesting. But I don’t agree with them all the time.

      • I’m sorry, I just said you were ignorant. That’s not an insult. I was attempting to correct the matter. I said nothing about you being bitter, nor did I insult your intelligence or character. You admitted that you didn’t like being approached by older men and omegas, so it was easy to infer that you rejected them. And you acted as if it was somehow wrong that all men found you attractive, which I could only interpret to mean that you had never been told when you were young that, yes, every male with a pulse and without a purse is going to want to shag you if he can — you had to learn it on your own.

        I did mention your Rationalization Hamster. Was that the perceived insult? Just curious.

        I choose my words most carefully. I write for a living. The English language is my bitch.

      • @ian – no I meant to put my comment under lost sailor as it was he that said I was bitter.

      • LostSailor on said:

        Fi, it wasn’t that you disagreed that revealed your bitterness, it was the tone that you used, and the shaming language toward men (and the young women who might date them). Ian may write for a living, but I’ve been a professional editor for 25 years. English is *my* bitch (and I punctuate pretty well most of the time).

        If you want to disagree without being disagreeable, you’ll likely receive less strongly worded replies. We believe things about women and live by those beliefs because they are demonstrably successful, and demonstrably make both men and women happier in relationships. The truth will set you free.

        Of course you’re not going out with any of us, being in a different country and having not posted any pics (we’re not fools).

        And since, to my knowledge, you haven’t turned anyone here into a newt, we’ll withhold judgment on the status of your witchery…

      • LostSailor on said:

        Oh, and the fact that you missed the entire message of the comment and zeroed in on “bitterness”? Means you are bitter.

      • @lostsailor. Stop for just one minute. Really. What am I supposed to be bitter about? If you seriously thought about this instead of just trotting out the usual platitudes (I’m old, unattractive, unhappy, need a good fucking) you would realise that there is absolutely no evidence to suggest I am, and therefore if bitterness isn’t prompting my disagreeing with you, maybe your world view isn’t the only one that people can have

      • LostSailor on said:

        Fi, do you have a degree in missing the point? I trotted out no platitudes, so stop trying to put your words and your projections in my mouth. Really. Or at least buy me a drink first.

        Your argument that “old men with their wrinkly skin and paunches and boring conversations” couldn’t possibly attract young women unless those women wanted something from them (“let’s not pretend its because you’re you”) reeks of bitterness and more important completely misses the point. Your reasons for being bitter are your own, don’t project them onto me.

        TMP’s blog isn’t really a debating society, but if you’re going to disagree, try to address the topic at hand rather than straw men with their “pot belly and softening flabby bodies” of your own making.

        Seriously, Fi, you should consider getting out of the UK and find a better class of men, it doesn’t sound like a very nice place…

      • Or, rather than cringing, running, and avoiding, a young woman can smile, take a compliment at face value, and say “thank you.” Because that’s what the attention is: a compliment, and I think it’s ungrateful to throw that back in someone’s face — potbellied or no.

        Sometimes I get truly vulgar, threatening things said to me in the street. No, I don’t smile and say “thank you” to those, but I’ve found that the ill-intentioned are a truly small minority. As for the rest: what’s wrong with a man of any age approaching a woman and letting her know he thinks she’s attractive, and would like to get to know her better? Why shouldn’t she be expected to act like an adult, make a decision, and either politely accept or decline his advances?

        At least, that’s my two cents.

        — a 24 year old who is trying to be a better person, one sidewalk encounter at a time.

  3. Fi, I’m not going to attack you — you just don’t understand. This gets complicated. Pay attention.

    You’re looking at the situation as a woman, that is, you are looking at the man the way you expect men look at you, and that’s just not the case.

    Men are more visual about their sexuality. That means that it doesn’t matter what a woman is or is not wearing, he’s going to be staring at her boobs. Women know this instinctively and therefore their perception of attraction is based on visual cues — your focus is on cosmetics, clothing, shoes and hair, the things that will attract men to you visually. The easiest way for a woman to buff her Sex Rank is to get a make-over and go shopping.

    Women are more contextual in their sexuality. That means that the same dude will look 15% more handsome to you if he’s standing in front of a Maserati. If he’s wearing a platinum Rolex he gets 10% more handsome, and if he’s playing with a puppy he gets another 10% — yet his physical appearance does not need to change in the slightest to get this response. Men know this instinctual, and therefore their perception of attraction is often based on contextual cues, things that will subtextually suggest a context (like a sports car and a Rolex suggest ‘rich’ and a puppy suggests ‘sensitive’). Most of the time we don’t even know we’re doing it (those fellas without Game, that is).

    It’s much, much harder for a man to buff his Sex Rank than it is for a woman, but then he loses it much more slowly than she does, too — indeed, for a significant number of men age actually increases their Sex Rank the same way it decreases a woman’s. But it’s not a matter of his appearance, it’s a matter of his context. Age implies maturity, good survival skills, and a lifetime of accumulated resources to a woman, regardless of the wrinkles a man might have. Contextually, that’s as good as a boob job.

    A new haircut and wardrobe will only get him a 5-10% buff, max. Men have to improve their context for their actual SR to go up significantly, and that’s hard. Getting a title, a promotion, or a lot of money, for instance. Fame and notoriety work, too. Preselection can help some. But money, authority and power are the absolute best ways for a dude to buff his SR.

    So that’s why you’re wrong — that and perceiving the doc’s desires through a similar filter of feminine logic. You feel that an interpersonal connection is only valid when the other person wants you for you, apart from appearance or context. From a male perspective, an interpersonal connection is what happens in the fullness of an intimate relationship, and until then it can just be a lot of happy sex. And that’s OK.

    Any questions?

    • Nope. If what a bloke is looking for is sex with an attractive young woman, then provided he has money/power/status then he’ll get it from certain women. No question and no doubt.

      • Exactly. And if he doesn’t have money/power/status, then he learns Game and offers an Alpha presentation to get laid, instead. It works almost as good as a Maserati, and it’s a lot easier to afford the insurance. Of course, that means that you’re waking up next to a dude who doesn’t have a Maserati, and who talked you into doing stuff you’ve only read about in bed, and who won’t call you back after a second lay because you’re just another plate, but . . . that’s about as fair as finding out the boobs as fake.

      • LostSailor on said:

        Money, power, status certainly help. But the charismatic man does fine without them.

    • DC Phil on said:

      You could also add the exotic factor in countries where certain men are more desired than the local men. This happened to me years ago when I was living in Korea, and it certainly helped me get my two short-term girlfriends there. But, then again, the one also had something to offer in that she spoke fluent English and didn’t want to date Korean men.

      And, then there are places like the Philippines, where white men of decent income are much desired by the poor — but sexy — Pinays.

  4. I’m currently being pursued by an elderly millionaire, with a flash car. He constantly tells me how wealthy is, how big his house is, how he wants someone to spend money on. But he’s old and I do not fancy him although I like him. It doesn’t occur to him that money is not going to attract all women. And the more he tries to sell himself to me on the basis of how wealthy he is, the more it puts me off him really as he obviously doesn’t realise that he’s implying he wants me to whore myself. The last man I was seeing also went on and on about his cars and watches and holiday homes in europe. It was just embarrassing for us both and insulting to me and demeaning for him, and he had to go. Personally I value wit, intelligence and humour. Each to their own but I think men overestimate the value of money/status/power etc in making them attractive to women per se. Some yes, but not all.

    • LostSailor on said:

      A wealthy Beta is still a Beta. These guys are doing it wrong. They lack charisma, which, you admit, attracts you: wit, intelligence, humor.

      The charismatic man never goes on and on about his money, house, car. He doesn’t need to.

      You could do yourself a favor Fi and send those men here. We’ll whip ’em into shape so that you will fancy them.

    • “It doesn’t occur to him that money is not going to attract all women.”

      Of course it’s occurred to him. It doesn’t need to attract all women. Just enough to have a sufficiency of plates to spin. As long as there are enough women who respond, that’s all that matters — he’ll get what he wants. And if you’re still talking to him, you’re still spinning. Eventually he’ll realize that you’re a lost cause and move on to greener pastures. And eventually, they’ll stop calling altogether.

      “Personally I value wit, intelligence and humour.”

      In other words, you want to be Gamed.

      • LostSailor on said:

        Indeed she does. Don’t most women, subconsciously?

        Actually, Fi would probably be a lot happier if she were to swallow the Red Pill. In comments at the Chateau and HUS, I’ve noted that the women who have taken Red Pill advice to heart and understood it (rather than fighting against it) seem to be the most well adjusted and happier.

      • Well obviously you know better than me what I mean and what I want, and it’s what you tell me I want.

      • Sweetie, if you haven’t learned that by now, it’s the whole secret behind the Red Pill.

        Women don’t tell you what they want. If you listen to what they say, you’re a sad Beta who’s doomed to a lackluster relationship at best, and a woman who gets unhappier every year that you try to give them what they say they want. If you listen to what they DO, and interpret it properly, and give the appropriate response, then all of a sudden you have a smooth running machine. THAT’S the Red Pill in action.

        How do we know this? Because it works. It’s utterly counter to the popular culture feminism that insists that women are always to be deferred to and their opinions are to be respected and yadda yadda yadda, but the fact is that Red Pill marriages work and dudes who take the Red Pill get laid a lot more (and that’s important to dudes).

        So what’s more important to you . . . being happy, or being “right”?

      • LostSailor on said:

        Yes. This.

        Over an 18-year marriage, my nascent charismatic qualities were subsumed by ever-encroaching Betaness that gradually drained the life out of the relationship. The end wasn’t entirely my fault, but I found the Red Pill too late (though the ex and I are very much still on good terms).

    • Once again, Fi, I’m mystified as to why you’re here. Theprivateman isn’t writing a blog about how to date you, and you alone. You can write your own blog for that.

      It’s quite irrelevant if you used to find older men icky. Implicitly, you acknowledge that some women will find our physician friend attractive. (“It doesn’t occur to him that money is not going to attract all women.”) I have yet to find the single trait that will attract all women. Having money is better than the alternative. It may not help him land every woman, but I have yet to meet the person for whom this is a turnoff.

      You seem to be under the misapprehension that theprivateman advocated the physician make an ostentatious show of his wealth. Your misguided wooer is clueless about Charisma since he’s making ham-handed displays of his wealth. Anyone with tight Charisma—which theprivateman explicitly stated was necessary for the physician to date 20-somethings—would let his target know he’s a man of means subtly.

      • Well I thought it was ok to make a comment relevant (in my opinion) to today’s topic ie the attractiveness of older men and younger women. It then veered off onto me but I hijack the blog so much as simple respond to the comments directed at me. Is that not ok?

      • No, you hijacked the blog before anyone else responded. Go back and re-read your first post. It was all about what you find attractive and what you think of old men.

        If you don’t want comments to be directed at you, personally, quit making your comments about you.

      • LostSailor on said:

        Of course it’s fine to comment. Again, you were the one who responded to my rebuttal by focusing the topic onto yourself and not addressing the point. You don’t “hijack the blog” by responding *on topic* to comments.

        TPM also noted you responded to a strawman of your own making and warned you of the likely consequences. You ignored him.

      • blogster on said:

        fi – your attention whoring is incredibly transparent.

    • I’d wonder about where the millionaire’s brains went.
      Why go after a woman past childbearing age if younger ones who are more approachable in the right milieu, are around?
      But of course, too many millionaires are also keenly aware that they make their money by following the status quo … there’s only so many millionaire-acquaintance-wives you can make insecure by turning up with a young lady yet to decide on where to go to university, before your cushy contracts go south.
      In a way, their wealth is a prison too.

  5. Days of Broken Arrows on said:

    In much the way some guys go for Asians women or Jewish women or only slim blondes, some younger women do, in fact, prefer older men. I met one recently. I felt at 24 she was too young…until I found out the last guy she’d dated was 50. You never know.

    • I once got propositioned by a porn star who has a thing for older men. She dated Charlie Sheen. Despite her love of anal, I turned her down. I’ve seen her naked too often, anyway. True story.

      And you should have seen Mrs. Ironwood’s reaction to that. Preselection PLUS!

  6. Hey Fi… I think Plankton might have a head explosion over this post. Oh, and take the Red Pill.

    • Yes. Better not draw it to her attention 😀

      • Anyway I’m not entirely sure why you’re all getting your knickers in a twist – all I said was that if young attractive women want to get involved with older men its generally because they’ve got status/power/money. You all agree that the man has to have something else (Charisma I think you call it) and PM said that the physician has status anyway. I also said I don’t think its wrong. And yet….. As a collective you’ve veered off into arguing with me about what exactly??? Totally off topic, wilfully misunderstanding what I’m saying, chucking a few insults in, annoyed, emotional, reading too much into what I’m saying…….rather like……….women?

      • LostSailor on said:

        Fi, Fi, Fi. Twas you, darlin’, who veered off topic. Care to try again?

        Topic: Fit, stylish, older men with charisma (aka air-tight game) can reasonably expect that some, not all, younger women will find them attractive and will date and/or sleep with them.

        You changed the topic to older men are icky, flabby, paunchy, can’t satisfy a young woman, lack stamina, etc., etc. ad projectile nauseam. In other words, rather like…women.

      • DC Phil on said:

        True. Fi, you have to pay closer attention to the comments if you want to argue logically to prove your point.

        Not all older guys are icky, flabby, and paunchy. (Perfect example, George Clooney.) If they look good and if the both of them are attuned to each other, then some younger women will happily date the older guys and be bedded by them. Even better if they’re in a culture where older men are prized, like Thailand, Philippines, or many countries in Eastern Europe.

        Of course, this also applies to the woman herself and how she sees herself dating an older guy. There are some younger women I wouldn’t bother with at all because their immaturity really gets to me, since I’m intellectual and I see the world though eyes that aren’t corrupted by pop culture and the media. In other words, I have a rather high bar set for discussion. Just a quick fuck or two? Nah, that doesn’t matter.

  7. I’m a year older than TPM. The women I’ve dated over the past year were in their 20s, only one of them in her early 30s. Recently I was talking with a female friend (a cool person, smart, accomplished, mid to late 40s), and she asked me about the girl I had recently started dating. When she heard how young she was, she almost snapped (she’s pretty cool otherwise, not a bitch), saying how ‘so wrong’ this was, how ‘ageist’, and why she couldn’t date much younger guys, and how everything was a ‘social construct’. Oh well. I didn’t tell her, but I felt disappointed that she could utter such cliches.

    • DC Phil on said:

      How were these women in their 20s? Good head on their shoulder, or airheads? Attention-whores?

    • Guys who date younger deserve congratulations.
      I do believe the world has become a nanny state because many of the people in charge are old enough to be nannies, and want others just as miserable as they are.
      Good on you, TM, for making younger women more open-minded about dating older guys.
      After all, open-mindedness is something many older women need to relearn.
      They became “fuddy-duddies” just like they swore they wouldn’t when growing up.

  8. Candide on said:

    My dad is over 60, hasn’t much money and he attracts lots of 30-something to 40-something women. He stays in very good shape, has all his hair, is quite good-looking and charismatic though.

    Bang away, good doctor.

    It always amuses me to see supposedly experienced Red Pill men wasting so many words to respond to some woman (in this case, a post-Wall one) trolling a blog. Do you get a kick out of the futile act of arguing with women?

    • LostSalior on said:

      Refuting illogical, hamster-driven comments is just sport. It was a slow day at work…

      But there’s always the chance that some Red Pill logic might seep through. Or it might just be residual Beta tendencies. Okay, going back to the Chateau for an inoculation…

    • Keep in mind that even though my comments were directed at Fi, I know very well that plenty of others will read them. While I don’t expect her to get it, I’m hoping I can help some of our Blue Pill Brethren get a clue.

  9. @DC Phil
    So what worked to pull them?

    I don’t know. I could only speculate, but the age gap was almost never brought up. Maybe most of us worry too much about it.

    • DC Phil on said:

      Aha. Well, that goes to show that it didn’t matter to them anyway.

      • They never implied that it matter. For at least one it seemed to be a plus.

        I think older guys dating younger women would not be an issue for women if they were able to date younger guys just as easily. But because they can’t and guys can, the rationalization hamster has decided it must be wrong.

      • DC Phil on said:

        Indeed. One would think that, if the (somewhat intelligent, not slutty) girls don’t like dating guys their age because they think they’re schmucks, they’d go after “nice” older guys. But, few do. At least in North America. “Eeeewwwwwww,” they say.

      • True, see Ms. Fu’s earlier post and your comment to it. There may be also an influence of Victorian morals in the US, which must have put a stamp on feminism too. (Catholicism is probably seen as the embodiment of patriarchy). The one-way age gap is perceived as something immoral.

      • DC Phil on said:

        I wonder, though, if there’s a stark difference between age reported online vs. not saying anything in person. That is, if the younger woman thinks that you look at least 10 years younger than you actually are, then she’s okay with hit. If you told her that you were 50 or 51 right off the bat, it probably would have deep-sixed your chances.

        I see this often in online dating. If I report that I’m 40, then I don’t get very many looks from mid-20-somethings, even if I message them first. Must be that they see the number and get icked out. 🙂

  10. Johnycomelately on said:

    My friend is a 35 year old accountant and his father is a 60 year old tow truck driver. When his wife passed away the father and son duo would often go to the pub together for a drink, the father had women (28 to 35) literally falling over themselves to become his wife whereas the son got zero and I mean zero interest.

    He concluded they were gold diggers and went to the Phillipines to get married.

    • DC Phil on said:

      Smart move. There are plenty of much younger women there who don’t care at all about age, it seems. At the moment, I’m on a Pinay dating site and am getting hits from early 20-somethings — including 18 yr olds. 🙂

  11. Ok folks. Having re-read what I said yesterday (while on the train getting on and off with suitcase, briefcase, handbag and coffee) I was unnecessarily brutal and tactless. 😦

    • Make amends by dating a 90 year old.
      “you’re not too late to make an old man happy”

      • But I wouldn’t make myself happy. Is it bad of me to not want to have sex with a 70 year old or is there a cut off age that I’m allowed to not want to?

      • You can do whatever you want, sweetie. It’s not so much bad that you don’t want to have sex with a 70 year old, just a little ironic and funny. Of course, you might be missing out, too. “Once you go gray, you’re gonna want to stay”. Besides, you’re one old geezer with a heart condition away from early retirement.

        Hell, for the right amount of money, I’D sleep with a 70 year old. I know my price. I’m not proud. (Incidently, Mrs. Ironwood knows my price, too. And she knows I’d do it. A million bucks buys a lot of marital counseling.)

      • Surely ironic if I DID want to have sex with an old man?

      • LostSailor on said:

        Oh, go ahead Fi, you might really like it.

        But remember: an intelligent, stylish, witty, in-shape older charismatic man. If you can draw his interest.

        Sometimes ironic sex is the best sex…

      • I can’t bridge that age gap. Although he is charming and a good conversationalist and clever. But you guys wouldn’t go near a woman 20 years older than yourselves no matter how much you enjoyed her company (ref PM’s earlier postings on meeting a charming Southern woman who was 15 years older). You can barely tolerate your own age…

      • If a woman insists on dating a man that “she could look up to” (menaing he is better than her), he has every right to insist that she meets his standards of beauty. Rarely will a woman his age or older meet this, because most women in the west age horribly. So by default he is forced to go young.

      • LostSailor on said:

        @Fi 20 years up? Remember, I’m an “old” guy and not much into necrophilia. But if she were above ground and hot enough…

        @NMH Correct. Women older than I am that have really taken care of themselves and aren’t harridans are rarer than an honest politician.

      • And you, LS, are in an environment with a lot of tagets. I live in one of the most obese regions in the country, so the women my age are for the most part disgusting.

        I am happy to date an older woman if she looks younger. In fact, I am 48 and am dating someone 5 years older than me. But she is extremely unusual in that she is slender, looks in her early 40’s, and is in the top 1% for looks in her age range. But objectivaley I would rate her a 7, because the average woman around here my age is a 2.

        Men wouldn’t mind dating older women if they didnt age like milk.

      • LostSailor on said:

        Sorry to hear that NMH, about the region you’re living in, not the hot older woman. You sound like you’re doing well for living on the plains of the lumbering herd.

        But even in NYC you’d be surprised. Yes, it is a more target-rich environment than much of rural or suburban America, but it still requires good game in that most of the attractive women are also some of the most self-entitled. It takes good charisma to get past that.

        As for women older than me here, they tend to come in 2 basic flavors:

        1. women who have chopped all their hair off, dress indifferently, have a gaggle of “friends” they brunch with, and think they can run marathons (no, dear, 7 hours is walking, not running a marathon). They are usually about 30 lbs overweight and can be snarky.

        2. wealthier women who are desperate about their looks. They tend to dress well, have expensive tastes, and have usually had “work” done. There is something about a woman who has had facial plastic surgery, something that sends constant signals to the limbic brain that there is something off, something wrong. It’s very off-putting. Plus, these women tend to not put out without extraordinary effort.

        Mid-to-late 30s/early 40s is the sweet spot for me. They haven’t gotten to the point of giving up and becoming number 1 and have reached the desperation to morph into number 2. And there is a range in between in this group where there are still some attractive, sweet women.

        Visit NYC. I’ll introduce you…

      • LostSailor on said:

        That should be “haven’t reached the desperation to morph into number 2.”

  12. If you want to date a younger woman 20 years old, you better be good looking, charming, and have a high status job—example: Munson (no homo).

    I dont have the looks, charm, and high status that Munson has, and so I can only go down so much. In my experience, Ill get a look of interest from a much younger woman maybe a couple of times a year, and that it just a “look” or a mild flirt.

    Now, if I would consider bland looking women who were very overweight, I could date women 20 years younger than me.

    I guess the bottom line is unless your Munson-ish, interest from much younger women will not happen often, and if it does, you need to snap the opportunity up.

    • If you can spare the time, and the woman is attractive to you, definitely take the opportunity to introduce yourself.
      The best kind of high status job is one where you don’t have to answer to any boss, and where your reputation spreads by word of mouth through proven (as in they actually did business with you) customers.
      Quite a lot of people have their reputations done in by those who need them out of the way so that they can “steal away” potential clients.

    • DC Phil on said:

      Or, to take a different tack . . .

      Don’t bring up the job at all — at least at first. I do this often with the women that I date in order to deflect the dreaded DC “What do you do?” question. It usually works, but as DC is insular, most everyone comes to expect what certain professions do and where someone might be on the pecking order.

      After all, can’t it be said that most younger women are out for the good experiences and the good ‘gina tingle? What does she care what the guy’s job is as long as he acts and dresses professionally and acts charming, and can offer her things that her younger-guy peers can’t? Even better if he knows the female psyche and how to hit attraction buttons.

      • One of my single pals always says, mysteriously, “I’m a consultant” and leaves it at that.

        This invariably prompts “What kind of consultant?” (i.e. “How much money?”)

        My friend shrugs. “What kind do you need? I’m giving a special on cunnilingus today . . .”

        He says it has a 60% or so success rate. It deftly changes the subject away from his income and back to her, and it can be used to both isolate and escalate if played properly. He can also modulate it to the more polite “What kind do you need? I’m giving a special on tall, dark, and handsome today . . .”*

        *NOTE: he really is tall dark and handsome, so don’t try that unless you are too.

      • P Ray on said:

        You can always spin a funny story.
        At the very least it helps with keeping a conversation going, which is a good way to keep people interested in things you believe they could do with.
        Too bad that requires someone who is willing to take up the challenge of responding. Otherwise it’s a great filter, those who care not a whit for conversation …
        are plainly unsuitable for anything long-term.
        If you get married, you’re choosing to place quite a lot of your happiness and trust on the whims of one person. For most men, choose wrongly and everything you’ve worked for is taken away (different from the supermarket where if you choose an item you can’t afford you can return it to the shelf without paying for it).
        I’m not sure how many women are the “right one” for men …
        but I do know that many women seem to think that only one man is right for them.
        That guy usually has _plenty of other women to choose from_.

      • I was considering “International Man of Mystery” (have worked overseas recently)

        Push for specifics? “I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you”.

        I kind of object to the attempt to determine my income; She may be a whore, but that doesn’t make me a John or a pimp. Now if I could make that cocky / funny. I’d be tempted to use that.

      • DC Phil on said:

        So, what would you recommend for a Fed employee like myself? Nice, good, boring (but stable) job with a good income supplemented by years of saving, so that I can live two pay grades above what I already am. 🙂

    • NMH. QED my original comment

    • LostSailor on said:

      NMH. QED TPM’s original post. You need tight game. Improve what you can in the looks/status department, and up your game. The charismatic man is always charming…and confident. All of which can compensate for looks/status/age. Keep pushing the envelope, my friend!

      • Completely agree with you LS but a lot can be said to be satisfied with a good deal instead of expecting a great one. That is what Im working on.

        Doesn’t take away from the fact that most older women are not worth it…anywhere.

  13. katmandutu on said:

    Thanks to the old boys for the entertainment. 🙂

  14. Dirt Man on said:

    This is great, good post man. As a 37 year old (spring chicken?), it seems to me that the point when you don’t consider much what other people think of as appropriate is the time when your confidence and boldness becomes bullet-proof. Also, my experience is that the less you take the younger women seriously, the more they want you. The more they respect and look up to you, the more they want you, and so on. I’m working on a post about the respect issue, it seems to be a missing piece for many.

    • DC Phil on said:

      Respect is rare anymore. As is general courtesy and civility.

      • P Ray on said:

        Men ape the success of those who get the women considered most attractive.
        The female chooses to be in the relationship.
        If women wanted civil men, the players would be the ones complaining.
        “You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish”.

      • DC Phil on said:

        All true. But, I was speaking in general. More so with women who lack respect and civility towards men. And these are the women who wonder why they can’t get men. 🙂

      • P Ray on said:

        You mean they can’t “get men to commit” …
        because the men they want to commit, are not the committing type,
        and the men that do want to commit to those women, get rejected.

        Women lack respect and civility towards men that don’t have other women after them.
        They make a very conscious decision (and are terrified of losing) to play up to the expectations of such men.

        The longer a woman is in a relationship with a man(who later lets her down), the lower the chances of her admitting she made a mistake.
        A woman who can’t admit her mistakes, is a bad relationship choice.
        You will ALWAYS be apologising to her,
        and at any point she can move on saying “things just didn’t work out, and she has to put her own happiness first”.

        Whereas if a guy does that to a girl, he is vilified as a cad.

        Nice demonstration of so-called “equality” there.

      • A woman who can’t admit to her mistakes is a bad relationship choice. You will ALWAYS be apologizing to her…

        My first marriage, in a nutshell.

  15. Sincere on said:

    Great post PM. Reminds me of Roth’s book,The Dying Animal. Here’s a choice quote:

    “These girls with old gents don’t do it despite the age—they’re drawn to the age, they do it for the age. Why? In Consuela’s case, because the vast difference in age gives her permission to submit, I think.

    “My age and my status give her, rationally, the license to surrender, and surrendering in bed is a not unpleasant sensation. But simultaneously, to give yourself over intimately to a much, much older man provides this sort of younger woman with authority of a kind she cannot get in a sexual arrangement with a younger man. She gets both the pleasures of submission and the pleasures of mastery.”

  16. @ DC Phil

    “I wonder, though, if there’s a stark difference between age reported online vs. not saying anything in person. That is, if the younger woman thinks that you look at least 10 years younger than you actually are, then she’s okay with hit. If you told her that you were 50 or 51 right off the bat, it probably would have deep-sixed your chances.”

    There is a difference, for sure, but if women care about your age it’s not worth bothering anyway. I neither hide nor bring up my age, and obviously online it’s out in the open. Even with that, I’ve had far more responses than I bothered to go out and meet.

    @ Dirt Man

    “the point when you don’t consider much what other people think of as appropriate is the time when your confidence and boldness becomes bullet-proof. Also, my experience is that the less you take the younger women seriously, the more they want you.”

    Spot on. I wish I’d had the confidence I now have when I was in my 20s for instance. But with time you learn how to feel comfortable with who you are, including not being pushy. It may have helped that I started graying in my late twenties, and now I’m almost completely gray 😀

    • DC Phil on said:


      Agreed. If age is an issue to the woman, then she’s not worth the time. I ran into this a little over a year ago with a chick with whom I was in training/orientation for my current job. I was 39 at the time, she was 23. During a break, we got on the subject of dating and age differences. I asked her if she’d ever consider dating someone of my age and she immediately blurted out, “Oh, no way. I’m looking for someone no older than five years.” Then she added that her roommate might be game because, so this other chick said, she has “daddy issues.”

      FYI, this chick was ambitious and liked to flaunt that she was getting a master’s degree in political science from American University here in DC (which is a middling university, at best). She was also chubby. Go figure.

      • P Ray on said:

        Another one of those “soft-touch” subjects.
        With those “qualifications”, she is well suited to cosying up to political candidates and lying to constituents.
        Oh, and there are 2 kinds of masters’,
        masters by coursework (no exams),
        masters by thesis (peer-reviewed and critiqued … but not always).
        Guess which one is easier.

        And being one of the wooly subjects, you can bet that a substantial logic component may be fudged or missing entirely.

  17. Yes, you never know how they’ll respond. There’s a lot going on in their mind, including suggestions from the infamous hamster which is always on standby. The ‘daddy issues’ may be a contributing factor too, but who cares.

  18. His age range is…..

    18-whatever he finds attractive. Though i’d personally shoot for +26.

    Happy hunting Doc.

    • “His age range is…..

      18-whatever he finds attractive.”


      If men considered this as natural and acted accordingly, the age gap would not be a problem any more than a personal preference.

  19. Jamie on said:

    Men are more visual about their sexuality. That means that it doesn’t matter what a woman is or is not wearing, he’s going to be staring at her boobs. Women know this instinctively and therefore assume all men at perverts. –FTFY

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