The Private Man

Attraction and dating information for all men

An Interesting Comment

This comment was recently made on one of my older posts. It’s kind of long so I have redacted some of it to get the juicy bits. The phrase in bold stands out as the money shot.

I agree with almost every thing in this blog post, especially with regard to masculine & feminine.

HOWEVER, with regard to the idea of “women should give and their men will give back to them” …that has always backfired on me. I am a woman and tremendous giver. It is my natural state to give. I am this way with all my friends, my sister, even strangers. I am a nurturer. However, in all of my relationships, I wind up being a life coach, secretary, housekeeper, social events coordinator, loan officer, mother and resume editor and a whole long list of other “jobs”…while the guys give almost nothing back and to top it off are barely ever “in the mood”. I get sick of begging for “it.” I can’t understand how anyone only wants to be physical once a week or less often. Then I get fed up, depleted, exhausted and end the relationships. And they are always like “what?!?! You’re unhappy?!?! Why didnt you tell me?” But the thing is I did tell them, explicitly (as in: I need this, please do it…usually relating to screw me more often or at least let’s go out sometimes or get your life together, I cant keep being responsible for all our decisions and financing them)….but apparently, my being unhappy and telling them how to fix it, didnt bother them. But when I dump them….then it’s you’re the most amazing woman. Please come back. I am so sorry. I should have treated you better….blah, blah, blah. But by that point I cannot imagine being with them as I am so thoroughly done.

The other one (5 yrs older than me) was never in the mood…I think he just had low libido from what he told me about his past relationships.

I am very often the essence of “too nice” and all I get for it is taken advantage of (financially, emotionally), neglected or taken for granted. Now, none of these guys ever yelled at me or hit me or cheated on me…but I still wasn’t treated “well”…I was always giving, desperate for their attention (physical or verbal).

So I am honestly asking PM and the men of this board….please decode this for me…I have a long history of I give, they take…how is the “be giving and he will give back” idea going to work for me?

This one is actually pretty easy. She was being giving and supportive in order to receive attention. A good man would recognize that and would not exploit her desperate need for attention.  But she’s picking the wrong guys. She finds guys who do exploit her need for attention. Hell, she’s in New York City, an exploitative place.

This is one where she needs to be more open to different types of men.  Actually, she needs to be less giving. Oh, the irony!

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17 thoughts on “An Interesting Comment

  1. Giving (it up) too quickly in desparation to get what she wants is a poor strategy.

    When seeking an LTR, the foundation of a relationship is built before the consumation. Then a man invests more in the relationship and learns about her as a person. Of course if he is looking for a quick bang and leaves because that doesn’t happen, she has screened out a man that was probably a poor choice.

    The hook-up dance is different than the LTR dance.

  2. Miss_Fu on said:

    A lot of women are like this, myself being no exception. Certainly makes one rethink the commonly-accepted idea that selflessness is a feminine trait.

  3. greenlander on said:

    Good call, Badger.

    I only read a few sentences before the exact same thought came into my mind: she needs to get off the friggin’ alpha cock carousel and go date some betas.

    • “usually relating to screw me more often or at least let’s go out sometimes or get your life together, I cant keep being responsible for all our decisions and financing them”
      The rationalisation? Well, those broken people are always superior to those guys who have their life together! You have no right to judge me, and you will never be as good as them!
      She may be afraid of guys who hold the moral high ground over her, as that makes it difficult for her to be the superior one in the relationship.

      “Now, none of these guys ever yelled at me or hit me or cheated on me…but I still wasn’t treated “well””
      Reminds me of the time I heard “You need to treat me as more than a human being”.

  4. greenlander on said:

    Doh! lost track of what blog I was reading… so excuse me for calling you Badger…

  5. What a drag – controlling b*. Any woman told me to “get my life together”, I’d dump her straight away. What she means, of course, is “spend your time in ways that more directly benefit me”.

  6. Oh, and a nagger. Forgot to mention that utterly obvious point.

  7. Johnycomelately on said:

    I know this type.

    This is the type constantly seeking Daddy’s approval, Dad ignored her and she got his approval by being a martyr. As an adult she forgets the world doesn’t revolve around her and her needs for validation. Very giving but very demanding.

  8. Man gives first. Possibly for quite some time.

    Woman responds – sometimes much later – with input radically transformed.

    Think baby-making. Man gives and gives his sperm until a woman conceives and then only 9 month later she gives back. Woman giving first is ass-backwards and leads to the above.

  9. The comment she posted under the one PM quoted is heartbreaking. I feel for her. She has deeper issues than what she initially mentioned.

    From the quoted text, she sounds like she

    A) is unattractive – explains their ‘low libido’
    B) lacks boundaries – explains her giving and putting up with others not reciprocating
    C) is an enabler – see B
    D) poorly chooses appropriate men – you shouldn’t need to tell him to get his life together
    E) may come off as a nagger – see B and D
    F) has low self-worth – being “desparate for their attention (physical or verbal)” does not start or end well
    G) may lack feminine charm – see F

    I’m curious if there’s any Red Pill man that lives near her that would take half an hour to just sit and observe her. It won’t help much with the deeper issues, but beginning the path towards fixing the easier shortcomings would be a boost to her self-worth.

  10. LostSailor on said:

    I’d agree with most of Richard’s comment, but there is some missing information here, primarily how old JS is. She is clearly dating older men, but how old could make a big difference.

    I live and date in NYC and have encountered women that are similar to what my take on JS is, though I suspect that JS is quite a bit younger than my dates. At least in an older woman (late-30s to early-40s) in New York, The type of “nurturing” JS describes in nothing of the sort.

    However, in all of my relationships, I wind up being a life coach, secretary, housekeeper, social events coordinator, loan officer, mother and resume editor and a whole long list of other “jobs”…while the guys give almost nothing back and to top it off are barely ever “in the mood”. I get sick of begging for “it.”

    That’s not “nurturing.” That’s manically trying to “do” things in a relationship to prove she’s worthy of affection/attention out of desperation, low self-esteem, lack of boundaries, or whatever. And it’s incredibly off-putting. It takes very tight Game to deal with and often, ultimately isn’t worth it.

    The other type like this that I’ve run into are those women who just like to meddle, but I don’t think that is JS’s problem.

    But the thing is I did tell them, explicitly (as in: … get your life together, I cant keep being responsible for all our decisions and financing them).

    Actually, no, JS, you didn’t tell them you were unhappy, it sounds like you nagged and whined. This is one instance where women frequently get it wrong; they dance around the real issues, whining and wondering why their guy doesn’t “pick up” on the signals. The reasons are that you are most likely doing it wrong and that men are not f-ing mind-readers. Have a real talk with the guy, be direct but not whiny or pushy. And listen more than you talk. Why? Because of this:

    The one who was 15 yrs older would tell me to “take it down a notch” when i was happily talking about my acting class and trying to share with him my passion for my artistic pursuits, regardless of how many of his rants about money, life and the world I listened to patiently and provided understanding and feedback for. …I realized that I had taken the criticism so seriously that I actually no longer wanted to talk about it for fear of overwhelming others with my excitement and being criticized for it.

    Even when a man is having problems, he rarely goes on endlessly about them. JS says she “listened patiently” and provided “understanding and feedback” but she also describes the guy’s part of the conversation as “rants.” This tells me that she likely really didn’t listen, since she had to do it “patiently.” One is patient when one is waiting for something, in this case likely for the “rant” to be over. That’s not listening and being engaged in a conversation. It can also be typical of some women.

    JS was patiently waiting to get back to happily…sharing…her passion. Let’s break it down more simply: patiently enduring his “ranting” but “happily” sharing her “passion”. Add to this the reaction to his finally breaking and asking her to dial it back–complete retreat in shock–and the picture is that JS is somewhat oblivious to what’s really going on in these relationships and to her own behavior.

    Which is why I suspect she’s on the younger side. As I said, I live and date in Manhattan, but there are somethings even a proper Red-pill attitude can’t fix…

  11. Phoenix on said:

    To JS,
    You keep finding guys who are lazy. Sure, all of us guys struggle, but we have to keep working on ourselves to boost our confidence. And when we DO boost our confidence, we feel more lively and down to bang our girls to multiple orgasms.

    You give these guys emotional support and buy them things just for their attention. And yet, that’s not good enough. No matter what you do – it’s the men’s fault for not fucking doing something about their problems.

    That last guy you talked about, who’s 15 years older than you = “take it down a notch” = he didn’t share your enthusiasm and happy mood. Because he has issues of his own and he wasn’t dealing with them.

    “The other one (5 yrs older than me) was never in the mood…I think he just had low libido from what he told me about his past relationships.”
    –> If he’s had some bad relationships, it’s his job to get over them and stop dwelling on that shit. Because it’s just gonna make him worse, and any future relationships will go sour if he keeps that sour-puss attitude.

    You’re a good girl. Too good for these guys. That’s my take.

    • Phoenix on said:

      Actually, WAIT A MINUTE! What the fuck am I saying?

      I think your standards are set high. You want a highly valuable guy, but you end up well below it. That’s why you nag when you see so many wrong things in the guy. Which is bad news.

  12. just visiting on said:

    You sound like a very nice person who just needs to get some boundry issues handled. That’s actually pretty good because it’s fixable. Some women in your position go the other way and become narcissistic bitches. That’s not fixable. (Or questionably fixable among experts.)
    It wasn’t clear in the excerpt if you have this problem with all of your relationships (Friends and family) or just romantic relationships. Either way, two things stand out, boundries and validation. You’re going to have to be clear about who you are, what you stand for, and what validates you. (Yes, father issues will have to be handled, but you know that already)

    There might be a few other things contributing. My “ballsier” friends seem to run into this a fair bit. Most of the men are straight up beta’s with all of the wonderful passive aggressiveness that sometimes comes about. So all of the “work” that they do is not always supplicating, but something they see as necessary to keep things from falling into chaos. Some like to rescue strays. (Validation) The ones that end up short term with alphas don’t even get the chance to do such things. They get thrown in the harem or worse. Either way, look at boundries and validation. Fix what needs to be fixed. Once you have that figured out, figure out what your standards are. And be prepared to walk, even if the guy is George Clooney’s twin. The strength to do this comes from building up your self outwardly and inwardly.

    As in business, don’t give your self away for free. Give value but be prepared to get value in return. Keep in mind that men shit test too. They test boundries to see what they can get away with, starting very early on. Establish your self early on. That doesn’t require aggressiveness, but it does require asserting. Some upfront talk about what you’re about helps. And be prepared to see guys walk away. Even alpha types. Especially alpha types,lol. Be prepared for some nice surprises too. There are men who appreciate a woman who holds herself to high standards and doesn’t fold like a cheap lawn chair for the faintest glimmering of validation. Bring to the table what men value, along with the feminine and attractive. Be clear about giving value and receiving value. Then do it.

    • LostSailor on said:

      Bring to the table what men value, along with the feminine and attractive. Be clear about giving value and receiving value

      This is likely JS’s primary problem. She thinks she’s “nurturing” and that is the value she brings to the relationship, but what she is doing is not necessarily what men value, but what she values or what she thinks men value (or should value, dammit!). I suspect that the men involved are returning value since JS is the one, as she claims, that breaks off the relationship. But she’s not picking up on what they’re giving or even not clear on what it is she really wants. I also think there are definite validation issues going on here.

      She could probably benefit from some serious self-assessment on what it is that truly makes her happy and what she really wants in a relationship as well as some hard-nosed contemplation of TPM’s “woman up” suggestions, most importantly, what does she bring to the relationship that men really value.

  13. Bill Powell on said:

    Unfortunately, men these days don’t know a good woman when they find one. Also unfortunately, women who are looking for good men don’t know how to identify them when they do happen to run across one. This doesn’t bode well for civilization as we know it.

  14. Like Richard said, she is probably heavily overweight.

    The advice to this woman, is the same for men, when you continue to date shitty people, the problem is not with them for being shitty, it is with you for CONTINUING to CHOOSE to date shitty people.

    Make yourself the best you, that you can be first. Don’t date until then.

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