The Private Man

Attraction and dating information for all men

Reader Mailbag

[Note: A nicely prolific commenter, DC Phil, has described a real-life scenario where he requests some righteous Manosphere input. His email is below. He cordially asks for your wisdom.]

I met a woman, whom I’ll name just C., in late August of last year.  Blonde, 38, professional (worked for the EPA), relatively unassuming, intelligent, owned her own home, and very good-looking for her age (svelte with a tight ass and, age-adjusted, a solid 7 in my books).  C. and I met through OKC and, after the requisite “getting to know you” emails, we met at the one park near my place in DC for a chat.  No cost and at a place she had never been to.

From there, we met for a second date.  I took C. to one of my favorite jazz clubs and, though she wasn’t much of a jazz fan, liked the atmosphere.  From there, we walked to a park area to talk some more and I went in for the kiss, reading her signals correctly.  C. was a bit shy because, as she said, this was a bit “too public,” so we relocated to somewhere more secluded and began a heavy make-out session.  That was all for that date.  (Clear signals that she was DTF.)  Third date, her place and her bedroom.  This happened all in the space of two weeks.

From mid-September to early October, I was heading to Romania for three weeks for a much-anticipated vacation.  (The first time I was in Europe since late 2009.)  I had a great time over there, seeing many interesting things, spending quality time with lots of comely young Romanian ladies and managing to bag one of them (about 24 or 25) in Bucharest.  During this time, I emailed C. a couple of times, giving her brief updates and telling her that I’d be coming home with travel stories and renewed vim and vigor.  She was looking forward to both.

When I returned and was at her place, I made sure to bang her vigorously to reestablish my presence, and then we talked about my time in Romania.  I told her that I found the country to be very interested and a bit of a refresher from the same-ol’, same-ol’ in Western Europe.  I also told her how I was amazed to see how many Romanians are still thin and look very well, especially the women.  (Typical Eastern European women who take better care of themselves than North American women.  I had seen it for myself!).  I also told her that I had about 12 hours to kill in Amsterdam on my way back and tried to amuse myself in the city — unsuccessfully, as most everything was closed — for three hours.  Finally, I got so bored that I returned to the airport and slept until it was time to board my flight.  I mentioned how dead the Centrum was and how the reports were true: i.e., the red-light district is but a shell of what it once was.

Now, fast-forward to early November.  C. begins to pull away from me, but is still a bit cordial.  Sexy time had ceased and this was the lead-up to the eventual heave-ho, which I got the week before Thanksgiving.  She invited me to her house for some pizza and Scrabble, then broke the news, after we finished the pizza, that she didn’t want to see me again.  I didn’t ask why and left after I finished my drink.  She drove me home and gave me a hug.  That was that.  I gave her kudos for sending me packing in a dignified and respectful manner.  The other woman I had been seeing earlier in the year did it via email.

Though I’ll never know the real reasons why things fell apart, I have my guesses:

1.  I mentioned the girls in Romania.  Mind you, I never said anything about how hot I thought they looked, nor anything about the 25 yr old I bagged.  I’m too smart for that.  But, maybe just mentioning how thin everyone looked over there set off some insecurities in C.

2.  I mentioned the red-light district in Amsterdam.  Probably a big no-no.

3.  All during the time we were seeing each other, we spoke on the phone only once, and barely texted.  Mostly email.  C. didn’t seem all that communicative other than when we were in each other’s presence.  She also never initiated communication.  I was the one who always send the first text or email, or made the phone call.

4.  Though C. owned her own home, she spoke as if she had bitten off more than she could chew.  Though she made good money, she had wound up sinking $30,000 in a 1935-era house that required a lot of work.  In my mind, a bad investment.  She talked about her house and the money she spent, but I showed little sympathy.  Maybe she was miffed that I wasn’t rationalizing, for her, a bad investment decision.  (Better that she had bought a newer condo.)

Just my thoughts.  I’m over C. now.  She was one of the best and the sex with her was very good.  Just a learning experience.  Oh, yes . . . I should also mention that she lived all alone in her 3-bedroom and 2-bathroom house with two cats and fed the local strays.

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60 thoughts on “Reader Mailbag

  1. Not an expert opinion, but anyway: I don’t think she broke up with you for any of the presumed reasons. I don’t think you did or said anything wrong. If she actually did have a big issue with any points you mention, than you should have quit seeing her. The fact that she never initiated contact is a red flag. Either she wasn’t very interested in pursuing the relationship further, or she had something else going on that she decided it was better. Curious about what others will say…

    • DC Phil on said:

      Indeed, the lack of communication was a red flag. In any relationship, even if only casual, I do expect at least some effort at reciprocity. She wasn’t doing that communication-wise. But, it really wasn’t such a big deal since I usually stayed for the night at her place and she cooked and baked for me a couple of times. Guess she wasn’t that much of a talker via electronic devices.

      She also didn’t have a smartphone, her laptop was about five years old, and she owned an old TV with built-in VCR. Obviously not someone who was technically-inclined. But, also a good thing. No checking her phone constantly.

      • “But, it really wasn’t such a big deal since I usually stayed for the night at her place and she cooked and baked for me a couple of times. Guess she wasn’t that much of a talker via electronic devices.”

        The cooking and baking was definitely a good sign… and I guess she may have been more of a talker than a writer. Still, it wouldn’t have killed her to call you up once in a while! The vacation sounds like it came at an awkward time: if it had been later in the year, and more attraction had built up, it would have been a good way to see if the two of you missed each other at all. But despite her nurturing behavior with the cooking, she must have felt fundamentally unsure about the relationship. To me, breaking up right before the holidays sounds like getting spooked at the idea of getting locked into an LTR, and not wanting to lead the other person on by kissing them under the mistletoe.

      • DC Phil on said:

        All reasonable. Yeah, the Romania vacation probably came at a bad time, but I made those reservations well in advance.

        The thing about being unsure about the relationship was that I was unsure, too, based on her lack of communication and what I had mentioned down below. Too much uncertainty going around.

  2. Maybe I’m harsh… I wouldn’t spend the amount of time you have bothering to try and analyse it. Who cares what she wanted and whether or not you were it. You’re a man. With options, as well as the ability to be alone if need be, or by choice. Nothing any unrelated female ever does should ever give you pause, even momentarily.

    • Pretty much my thought as well. I used to waste time trying to understand what happened when a woman that seemed incredibly into me would just cut ties out of the blue and go radio silent. Now I’ve come to understand that it’s usually that she either got upset over some incredibly trivial thing or I just wasn’t her primary choice and whoever she’s still hung up on popped back in town.

      Look at the single men you know, and think about how many of them are stuck in the “blue pill” world. There’s a reason they can’t keep a woman, and a similar thing applies to most available women. Worry less about the why, and focus more on thinking, as Rolo at the Rational Male blog puts it, “NEXT!”

  3. Lady Thalia on said:

    Ok I’m a 45 year old woman and from what you’ve described, there’s nothing glaring that stands out that you did ‘wrong’. Maybe she wasn’t attracted enough to you, OR you didn’t fulfill her hypergamous urges to ‘marry up’.

    However, I probably would have expected some empathy at least if I was describing how my house ate up $30, 000 and was turning out to be a bad investment, and the lack therof would have told me that you just didn’t give a $hit.

    (as an aside, I dated an Iraqi/Turk when I was 38, and he was 10 years younger. To say he was alpha is a gross understatement lol. I was part of his harem and happy to get whatever attention he would give me. At one point he came to my aid when I was poor and desperate, and did something so empathetic for me that I was stunned and shocked. I would have done anything for him. But of course I was just in rotation, there could be no future for us. Just sayin that you don’t have to be LESS alpha just because you show empathy for someone. It’s not a sign of weakness)

    Plus 3 weeks in eastern Europe would make me automatically assume you were banging your way thru as many young fillies as you could, and if you didn’t discuss any of that with me, my imagination would be running wild….and my appetite to share bodily fluids with you and umpteen others would definitely make me lose interest in sleeping with you. I know you just met C and there wasn’t any agreement of exclusivity, but maybe her imagination really got the best of her, especially if you are attractive and dominant. (Only a complete dummy would believe you didn’t screw as many young, willing, & desperate girls as you could) Most girls in poorer parts of Europe are ‘desperate’ to find a ‘rich foreigner’ to save them from their poverty, and therefore the sex flows easily.

    If she feeds strays, she obviously has empathetic feelings, and probably expected you to as well. (the house)

    • DC Phil on said:

      It’s hard for me to feel empathy for a woman when she’s made what appears, to me, to be a bad investment. Now, don’t get me wrong. The fact that she owned her own home meant that she made a decent enough income to put towards paying the mortgage, and it showed that she was very responsible. Just not a good idea to get a 1935-era house that required a lot of work. DC has many houses like that, and many people I know didn’t realize what they were getting into by purchasing such homes.

      Romania couldn’t have been helped. I made those reservations two months prior, before I met C. No way I was going to pass up that travel opportunity.

  4. @tm and @tspoon both make excellent points.

    From where I sit, I think:

    1. She wanted to be pursued. An indicator of this is that she never initiated contact.

    2. The fact that the guy demonstrated that he had options was a deal-killer.

    Sounds like she thought herself to be entitled to being romantically pursued. No work on her part, just sit back and let it roll over her. Once he made it clear that he could choose another woman and didn’t have Oneitis, she politely pulled the “Eject” handle.


  5. She probably felt that you didn’t give a shit about her. So she felt insecure and useless to you.

    The next time you want to know why she doesn’t want to see you again, just fucking ask her why. And do it twice because, on most occasions, women will make up an excuse that is complete bullcrap to let you go. Get the honest truth out of her.

    • Ask her twice, on 2 different occasions.
      The first answer will be along the lines of “I make my own decisions, and I don’t have to explain myself to you”…
      and the second will be “I don’t know why I did that”.

  6. It sounds like she was never very interested due to the lack of communication on her part. If your writing in any way mirrors how you operate in the dating world, that also might be a reason. You come across like someone that wants everyone to think he’s a “super cool ladies man” when in reality, you probably aren’t. I mean, bragging about how you “bagged” a 25 year old….really? Grow up buddy.

    • DC Phil on said:

      Your comment isn’t constructive criticism, my dear. It’s a swipe. What do you care who I “bagged” or not, or what term I use?

      In any event, glad it made you feel uncomfortable.

    • @Monica:

      FYI, this is a Manosphere Blog. Which means we talk like guys here, and insist on proper behavior. We have an understanding of the common nomenclature of masculinity, in which “bagging” — that is, having sex — is a premium and oft-pursued masculine interest. Indeed, it’s a primary topic of discussion, considering Game id concerned with just that matter.

      While you might feel put-off by the language, that’s the language we use. We’re not here to impress the ladies — we’re here to learn how to impress the ladies enough to drop some panties. And as far as bagging a 25 year old East European babe, it really isn’t as challenging as you might think. Indeed, bagging any of you isn’t as challenging as you might think. And that is what scares you, and causes you to lash out.

      You want to think that “grown up” men all want long term stable relationships, and while some of us do, some of us are content endlessly banging 25 year-olds for as long as we can. And that’s OK. It’s more than okay, it’s great. Every time a dude successfully uses Game, its a victory for our collective masculinity. And it is NOT a hallmark of an immature or juvenile disposition. Oh, it used to be, but thanks to feminism, it is now completely appropriate for a dude to go on banging chicks without a single thought about a relationship and without any recriminations. Welcome to the Feminist Utopia.

      Further, the use of demeaning or shaming language or ad hominem attacks are grounds for ridicule, condescension, mockery, scorn and derision, including the use of the endearing epithet “Cupcake”, (sometimes abbreviated “CC”) which is employed to intentionally call-out such disrespectful behavior in a female commentor. This is an adult forum for adult men, who demand discourse in a reasonable and logical fashion without recourse to personal attacks. As everyone in the Manosphere knows, when someone tries to use shame or ad hominem language in a debate, it is an indication of the intellectual weakness of their position.

      Lastly, the fact that DCPhil did, indeed, bag both a 25 year old Romanian chick and a 38 year old American professional woman gives at least some credence to the idea that he is a “super cool ladies man”. In fact, that’s pretty much the definition of a “super cool ladies man”. I mean, how many chicks does he have to ball before you give him that title?

      You’ve been instructed.

    • “What do you care who I “bagged” or not, or what term I use? In any event, glad it made you feel uncomfortable.”

      This attitude would certainly repel me – I can see how a Byronesque persona could be exciting in the short term, but for an LTR, it promises nothing but misery (sex-laced misery, but still). A mention of the red-light district would come across as dangerous – not the exciting, alpha danger, just danger to my physical safety (there’s no reliable way to test a man for HPV, which can give you cervical cancer, which can kill you).

      Let’s face it, you presented yourself very effectively as a short-term fling, and you made your kill (if that’s the language you favor). Why waste another second thinking or feeling anything about C.?

      • DC Phil on said:

        “Byronesque”? Funny, I’m not normally a gloomy person.

        Ahem . . . you’re making the assumption that I actually partook of the delights in the red-light district. I didn’t. Again, it was eye candy and nothing more. I guess this is a common assumption. Trust me, if you’ve never been to the one in Amsterdam, most men are just out milling around, peeking in the windows and trying not to look too obvious. Rare was it that I saw anyone go in to one of the girls.

        And, I was aware that this wasn’t turning into a LTR with C. My purpose in posting the story was to get others’ take on things that I might have done wrong in killing the momentum so that I won’t make the same mistakes in the future.

      • Well, when I looked at your post again your hints weren’t as blatant as I thought: one mention of seeing the red light district plus one mention of how thin the Romanian women were does not necessarily paint you as Casanova… for a younger, more naive women your conversation may not have contained red flags. But I’m sure C. can add up the clues at this point and guess that you are at least somewhat into the player lifestyle!

        Still, I don’t know that you could have changed the way things went. If she was purely passive in the communication (you were always emailing first), I don’t know how to read that other than the dreaded “just not into you.” I guess she could have wanted you to be the pursuer… but do “Rules”-enthusiasts have third-date sex? She should have sent you at least some little “How was your day?” texts. A girl who’s truly crazy about you will spontaneously email you and do little nice things for you… it sounds like C. may have been investigating something more serious, but in the end she intuited that you weren’t the one for her.

      • DC Phil on said:

        The whole thing could have been an experiment for her, to see how things might have turned out. Bad timing, planning, etc. Could have been a whole host of things working against it turning into something LTR.

  7. Seething Lurker on said:


  8. Retrenched on said:

    A few possibilities…

    1. If she’s 38, reasonably attractive and has a houseful of cats, then there’s a very good chance that she’s been down this road before… perhaps many times. She saw how it was going to end, probably with you cutting her out in favor of someone younger and prettier, and she just broke it off herself to save both of you the time.

    2. She figured out that you weren’t offering what she was looking for, and pre-emptively broke up with you to save time.

    3. She’s found someone else who’s offering what she’s looking for.

    Anyway, it’s nothing to worry about in any case.

    • DC Phil on said:

      All very plausible.

      Incidentally, during the last chat, she said two other things: “You’ll do fine” and “You’re attractive.” I thought the last one very odd. I bounced this off of a friend of mine and he believed she said it as a sort of “gift” to me as she was sending me on my way.

      • Ah, the brushoff for the more experienced guy.
        Others get “let’s just be friends”(heaven help you if you contact me again, I’ll let the police know I feel scared) or “it’s not you, it’s me”(run along now, and don’t turn up at events I’ll be at, because I’ll pretend you don’t exist).
        Can’t put a price on the freedom from insecurity though.

  9. Many of the manosphere blogs focus on attracting and then shagging women. I read this one because the focus of the writer is more mature.

    Many men forget that if they are seeking a good woman for a LTR, that woman will want a man of honor in her life. Dominance includes honor, she can look up to this man.

    Despite Roosh’s lifestyle, he innately knows this and described a man lacking honor in the letter to his sister.

    You sound proud of your sexual exploits in Europe. To a mature woman who is not promiscuous who tries to treat her body well, this sounds disgusting. If a woman is seeking a father for children, innately we want a man who is honorable with his own sexuality, hers, and others.

    Do you know how many nonprofits & charity events are here in DC for women trapped in the sex trade? The Red light district is not full of women who are volunteering. It wouldn’t take me long to dump a guy after I started imagining him “a John”.

    If the European vacation discu

    • “I read this one because the focus of the writer is more mature.”
      The difference between a friendship and a relationship is sex.

      “You sound proud of your sexual exploits in Europe.”
      Yeah, like girls don’t compare guys or hookups with each other.

      “If a woman is seeking a father for children, innately we want a man who is honorable with his own sexuality, hers, and others.”
      If she’s not a virgin, she doesn’t get to pass such a judgement. Expecting the good treatment after you previously burned good men or enjoyed players, does not speak to a sense of honour either.

      It wouldn’t take me long to dump a guy after I started imagining him “a John”.
      Let’s assume he was disabled and needed the services of a sex worker.
      Still willing to dump him?

    • What is immature about attracting and shagging women? It’s the very definition of adult behavior. Especially adult male behavior. The idea that it is immature displays a lack of knowledge about male sexuality.

      From what I understand, DCPhil isn’t necessarily seeking a LTR. He is seeking sex. The two are not mutually exclusive. And the fact is, he was honest with her about his travels, which is honorable. He never lied or led her on when he very well could have. He was the essence of mature masculinity in how he handled it.

      My only criticism is that he should have been less forthcoming about his interest in other women in front of her, purely on the basis that it is usually poor Game. You can use Preselection as an attractant mechanism but almost always only if she witnesses the act of preselection personally — second-hand accounts, even from you, of preselection sound too much like bragging and not being discreet about your affairs. Being vague and mysterious about other women is perfectly permissible, but mentioning them in such contexts almost certainly eroded what trust she had in you. Other than that, well-played.

      And I don’t want to hear any crap about the “sex trade” and the awful conditions yadda yadda yadda. Not from a woman who wears clothes made in third-world sweat-shops who employ literally millions of women and children in deplorable conditions, where sexual abuse without any compensation is often the price of keeping a job . . . all so that you could get 50% off for President’s Day and feel like such a savvy shopper. You think those women volunteered? But the sweat of their labor and abuse swaths every woman in America, from the Georgetown elite who have those trendy charity events to the Wal-Mart clearance specials their maids wear at home. Consider that every time you put on you’re bra, you are brandishing human misery.

      So . . . stop wearing clothes, and we’ll stop patronizing the sex trade, in all of its manifestations. Sound like a plan?

      Personally, I don’t see losing Phil’s incipient spinster as any great loss . . . it sounds like she’s taking a final ride on the carousel before her ovaries shut down and she enters full Spinsterhood. Which means that she was unlikely to be a decent long-term prospect anyway. But learn from the experience and remember to keep your discussions of other women always vague and nebulous.

      • DC Phil on said:

        For the record, I remember hearing just before I left that the Dutch authorities were in the process of shutting down the Amsterdam red-light district because of human trafficking violations. Too many Eastern European and other ladies being sent there against their will. Being there last year and seeing what a shell it had become confirmed this. The last time I was in Amsterdam was in the autumn of 2009, and it was still in full swing with at least a few hundred girls all over De Wallen. This last time? Barely even 50, I counted.

        De Wallen has been part of the culture of Amsterdam for decades, and I liked seeing the eye candy. Though many women hate the idea of the red-light district anywhere, it exists. I don’t moralize about it. As you mentioned, Ian, one could get on his high horse and decry sweatshops, but we’re not here to discuss that.

      • Terror and mystery are your friends, DC Phil.
        Women love being terrified of losing the men they really want.

        I’ve observed plenty that the guys that were upfront were trampled on,
        while the guys that kept them in suspense were always given excuses for their behaviour.

        Again, you’re not in a relationship until both people agree it is, and act like it is.
        After all, adults are allowed to change their minds at any time, amirite 🙂

  10. Dating and having sex with a man (or woman) who uses sex workers/engages in sex with randoms while traveling or at home is considered high risk behavior — and it sends a message that the person in question probably is not interested in a LTR at this point in their life.

    She considered everything; made a rational decision and handled it with maturity and basic good manners rather than rant, scream, accuse or beg. That’s the way it should be done.

  11. Doesn’t sound like a bad outcome, really. She didn’t seem that interested in you, with the lack of reciprocity, and her own life situation (irresponsible house investment perhaps driven by ego or emotion, early cat lady-ism despite physical attractiveness) had more than one red flag for something longer, really. You got a few months of fun and sex (sandwiched with a fun trip to Romania) and probably dodged a bullet in terms of anything lasting longer. Sounds like it worked out as it should have.

    • DC Phil on said:

      It seems that many women get involved in buying their own house because they were seduced by the first-time homeowner’s tax credit. I’m still often left wondering if one reason why they buy their own home is because, one day, they’re secretly hoping to fill it with a husband and children. And pets.

  12. just visiting on said:

    Well, I have a few guesses, but Miss Cleo would probably be a better bet.

    Her friends reaction upon hearing you were taking a trip – “A little early in the relation ship to take off. You sure this guy is interested?”

    Her friends reaction upon hearing you’re going to Romania – “You know why guys go there, right?”

    Her friends reaction upon hearing you stopped off in the red light district in Amsterdam – Nothing. She didn’t tell them.

    Not initiating contact- either very bad or very good. So, let’s look at some other clues. When you went out on your first date, she was a little shy about the public display (Probably a little emotionally shy. Sexual shyness will be easier to overcome, than the emotional shyness, which is shown by her making out with you passionately. You conclude that the sex was pretty good in the relationship. Also a good sign. If she wasn’t interested, she wouldn’t be sleeping with you, looking for excuses not to sleep with you or the sex would be less than great. In other words, you’ve got a lot of attraction built up, but not a lot of comfort.

    So , what happened with the comfort? More than a few confident competent career types have a problem with revealing emotional vulnerability. Your trip didn’t help, and she may have needed more comfort cues. The more attraction she felt, the more uncomfortable about the lack of comfort.

    The bad investment house. Again, an emotional vulnerability thing. Instead of being direct, she went into circular girlspeak and hinting. She wants you to provide the answer she wants to hear without having to actually ask you. Translation – Where do you see this relationship going?

    38 year old woman with a three bedroom house. She wants to fill those bedrooms. Perhaps even obtain a “roommate”

    You – You really should get rid of this place and get a one bedroom condo.

    Her- Opens back door, shakes the cat crunch while looking wistfully at those empty bedrooms. “Here kitty, kitty, kitty…..”

    • DC Phil on said:

      I agree that there was a lot of attraction, but not a lot of comfort. Something to work on in the future, for a woman in whom I see some good potential. Some of my friends have criticized me in seeming too “distant” and I have the tendency to seem absent when I’m really not. Usually, it takes a while for a woman to grown on me and where I feel comfortable to proceed — after I’ve gone through my list of red flags and see if she manifests any.

      I was also seeing another woman in addition to C. (That ended badly, too, though I won’t get into that now.) So, I wasn’t completely focused on C. and that probably came out in a relative lack of comfort, so she perceived.

      • just visiting on said:

        Glad I could help.

      • “I was also seeing another woman in addition to C.”

        C didn’t want to be part of your harem. You didn’t want to give up your harem. It was never going to last.

      • I think its clear you weren’t interested in her for anything other than sex as that’s all you’re talking about, (that and how she looks) and she probably got that impression from you. That, and mentioning red light areas. You could be a really nice bloke but that doesn’t come across. I think she gave you a long time to see if there was more to you than that, rather than, as you think was the case, being into you then suddenly and for no apparent reason changing her mind.

  13. LostSailor on said:

    I had a not-dissimilar situation happen last year, though over a shorter period of time, but the sudden break-off was, I think, for different reasons.

    I’ll echo what some others have said above. While showing you have options is good in very early stages, mentioning Romanian women and the Red Light District was probably a mistake, not comfort building.

    You also don’t mention whether you and C were doing anything else besides getting together for drinks/dinner and knockin’ boots. If other activities were nonexistent or few and far between, that combined with your descriptions of your vacation may have scared her off, thinking she was only a STR pump-and-dump. The ladies, especially as they get older, don’t tend to like that. Well, most of them anyway.

    When you add in that she is 38 and talked about that biiig house… She was probably fishing for indications of a LTR. As someone said above, looking to fill all those rooms. Tick-tock.

    In sum, C was mildly interested (the lack of initiating communication is a huge red flag in my book) and wanted to test the waters with you; good sex was a good start. But she didn’t get the signals she needed to escalate her interest and decided to cut her losses.

    That’s my take anyway.

    • Agreed. It looks like she was gauging your interest in her by not contacting you between dates. At 38, she was possibly dropping her standards to date you due to her biological clock, and expected you to treat her like a princess.

      Also whatever you told her about your travels, combined with your comments about her financial woes, lack of expensive dates indicated to her that being with you would result in a lower quality of life. so she decided that cats were a better prospect.

  14. Phil, I have to ask this and forgive me if this seems blunt.

    Do you have some kind of physical impairment or speed impediment?

    This is the third or fourth woman you have written about that has dismissed you. (He wrote in a similar story to my blog last week.) There has to be a missing piece to the puzzle here that you’re not sharing. There’s an awful lot of focus being put on the woman here, little of which I think actually plays a part in the dissolution of this relationship.

    The most glaring point in this story that nobody seems to be addressing is that she invited Phil to her home in order to break up with him. Who does that? She couldn’t be bothered to initiate a conversation with a man she was sleeping with, but she’s going to suddenly become gracious and compassionate when it comes time to end things? No. This relationship lasted all of maybe 7-10 dates. I could see if they had been together and exclusive for an extended period of time. But not for this. Either she never intended to break up with him and was just pulling the ol’ pre-emptive strike by saying “I think we should stop seeing each other” in the hopes he would ask why and she could unload all her feelings. Or she took pity on him.

    The real problem here was that both people seem incredibly socially stunted. Something is off with the both of them. The woman seems awkward and with limited social/dating skills. Phil doesn’t appear to pick up on clues either. If he does, he refuses to indulge them. I’m not sure which it is. But this is not a simple case of Crazy Spinster Cat Lady. (Nice try thought.) To me, this seems like a case of rationalizing, and it’s surprising to me that so many guys are supporting that when, if this were a woman, she’d be being called a hamster.

    As for the STD hysteria connected to his mentioning of The Red Light district…good lord. The strain of HPV that can cause cervical cancer is actually quite rare. In fact, most STDS are pretty hard to contract, despite all the After School Specialish propoganda pushed out there by the media and various women’s groups. Women use the I might catch an STD excuse to avoid having casual sex (or any sex with a new partner before commitment is established) because it sounds plausible and few will argue it. But if you do the research you’d know contracting and STD isn’t easy. Nor is it the social stigma that you think it is. It’s all Chicken Little bullshit that women share with each other to screw each other over. Ian hit it on the head. Spare us all the moral outrage, especially when your cosmetics and beauty products are being tested on animals and they are being abused and tortured and your clothes are made in sweat shops.

    • I think the red light thing that puts women off is that …well…I don’t know any that would want a man that visited whores. Bit creepy that. As I’m sure you wouldn’t want one for a girlfriend. Or would you?

      • There are many reasons why women choose to sell themselves, some of which have nothing to do with poverty. For example, ever heard of the phenomenon of some Japanese girls sellng sex to older, weathier men so that they get money for their designer clothes, makeup, etc.?

        As for the poverty bit, in today’s shitty economy, I’m sure there are more women out there who are working as strippers and escorts because they found that, all things being equal, they can make more money nude dancing in a seedy club than they can doing retail during the day — which is probably all they could get depending on where they’re at. Every so often, the news runs such a story and the women rarely use their real names.

        Would I want one of these women as a girlfriend? No. But, how would I know whether the stylish, classy, and well-spoken woman I’m out on a date with hasn’t done this at some point in the past? Do you think she’s going to come clean and tell me that, yes, she did do nude dancing when she was in college to pay for her tuition and that she slept with the occasional guy who gave her the money? Very doubtful.

      • “I think the red light thing that puts women off is that …well…I don’t know any that would want a man that visited whores.”
        Katy Perry would beg to differ with you about that regarding her now ex-husband Russell Brand.
        Or is it because if a woman identifies herself as an actress or performance artist, but accepts gifts or money from men in return for sex, and does not classify herself in the “occupation” box as “whore” that she is not a whore?

        “As I’m sure you wouldn’t want one for a girlfriend. Or would you?”
        Most women will never be honest with the guys they marry or build a life with, because they know that slutting around means they are not good prospects for a long-term relationship.
        However, the most of them know the only card they have to play to attract men that other women like, is sex. Hence, they’ll be whores to the guys other women want, and tell lies to the guy they are with for the long term.
        It’s quite elementary.

  15. Again, please. I’m dating someone now who I’m sure has had his share of sexual experience that probably includes a rub and tug at some point. Who cares? Like we all haven’t had our share of experiences? Oh, right. He *paid* for it. That must mean he’s a creep or a loser. Couldn’t possibly be that he just wanted to get laid without the hassle involved with kicking her out afterwards or never having to call her again or just wanted the experience. When women are experimental everybody praises it. God forbid a man do the same.

    • Not everyone praises women “being experimental”, again I don’t know any women who see satc as aspirational. I don’t think the issue is paying for it, let’s face it that’s what a bloke does if he takes a woman out for dinner and has sex afterwards, I was thinking more about the numbers and treating sex as a transaction its ok to pay for rather than anything else.

      • In short, sex as a transaction is the issue. That and, I’m sure, treating the woman as a lubricated hole and nothing else. Yes, I can see how this would offend many women because they don’t like accepting the notion that, at bottom, this is how many men see women. Feelings, relationships, etc. are built on top of the sex act — they supervene. Treating the woman as a lubricated hole means that she’s not treated “special.” Definitely offensive, I’m sure.

      • Well I know not all men see women that way and I think you’re being offensive to them by saying they do. Nor is it true – you don’t see your mother or sister(if you have one) like that and wouldn’t like to hear other men describing them like that either. Or rather I couldn’t care less how you personally think of them as I don’t know you, but I’m simply saying there are nice men that I know that aren’t like that and I’m just saying you’re not typical. Of the men I know anyway

      • DC Phil on said:

        Now it sounds like your venturing into NAWALT and NAMALT territory. Those are flimsy defenses, at best.

      • @DC Phil
        “Treating the woman as a lubricated hole means that she’s not treated “special.” Definitely offensive, I’m sure.”
        They don’t mind those statements if it comes from men that many other women want.
        In other words, double-standards.
        To every man not meeting her standards “Wine me, dine me, treat me as more than human!”
        To every man meeting her standards “Wanna try a threesome?” or “I’m curious about you, tell me more about yourself”

    • And what about that trend of middle-aged British women going on sex holidays to Africa and the Caribbean?

      Fi – care to comment on that?

      • Just as creepy and desperate. That could be an urban myth though.

      • I think that women don’t go on sex tours abroad, but I think there are some women who go abroad on holiday with similar minded friends who intend to have sex with the locals. I know I can’t speak for every british person but I would say invariably these women are ugly, common and vulgar, not the norm and are viewed with contempt. People here would be horrified to think that other nationalities saw them as representative of British women. These women are not admired, quite the opposite in fact. The middle aged woman who comes back convinced that one of the locals has fallen in love with her is viewed with a mixture of contempt and pity, as it’s obvious to everyone except her that he’s after her money and possibly a passport.

      • British holidaymakers in the Mediterranean have a bad reputation for drunkenness and casual sex, and yes, it is horrifying that this is the image that people of those countries have of us Brits.

        North Africa was a popular holiday destination before the Arab Spring. Middle-aged women who go there are constantly chased by young men offering sex. I don’t know the culture, but I would guess that the local unmarried women are jealously guarded by their fathers and brothers, so my guess is that the young men really do want to have sex with tourists, even if they are 25 years older than themselves. The companionship and spending power of a “wealthy” foreigner is the icing on the cake. Occasionally the woman will agree to marriage, and that gives the young man the chance to live in a richer country. There are frequent stories in British newspapers about these marriages. Often the young man only wants a residence visa; sometimes he goes missing while visiting the woman on a fiance visa at her expense.

        Fi is right that, if women admit that they are going on a sex holiday, they will be viewed with contempt. But the ones who are not “ugly, common and vulgar” will have their story ready. They will say they went for an ordinary beach holiday or to see the sights. If in fact they have had the full “Shirley Valentine” experience, how would you know?

        It is not unusual for two or more divorced or widowed women to go on holiday together to North Africa, and if asked they will always admit receiving attention from young men. Unless they have returned with an engagement ring, women always deny having sex with local men. For some reason, people believe the denials, and don’t think of the holidays as sleazy. But in reality, they are no different from unattached men visiting Thailand or Amsterdam.

  16. EvilScarecrow on said:

    @fi: “That could be an urban myth though.”

    LOL, if men do it, it’s disguting and desperate, if women do it “could be an urban myth”, here, let’s add some facts:

    “The topic was much debated when I went on a detox holiday in Morocco at Easter with nine single women, ranging in age from mid-30s to late-40s and all looking for love.”

    Translation: We talked about it a lot when me and 8 women went to Morocco in a sex holiday looking to bang some young guys.

    Off course, i could be way off right? these women can’t be the type to go on such holydays because those are usually loaded on being “awesome fabulous women that are shunned by men for no reason” BS, but for safety’s sake let’s check a few paragraphs earlier aaaaand:

    “when I look around at my girlfriends – bright, attractive, successful, fabulous women in their 40s who are single – I sincerely begin to wonder: Is there even one solvent, kind, desirable, heterosexual single man in his 40s left in Britain?”

    mystery solved.

    • DC Phil on said:

      The key thing to notice in that article is that, of course, the women have just SOOOOO much to offer and are SUCH catches. Why, oh why, can’t more men in the UK see that?

      Nothing said about what they bring to the table.

  17. EvilScarecrow on said:

    @fi: “I think that women don’t go on sex tours abroad”

    the link on my previous comment clears doubts about it, don’t you think.

    ” but I think there are some women who go abroad on holiday with similar minded friends who intend to have sex with the locals.”

    LOL, it’s impressive how fast the contradictions come, from “women don’t do that” to “but some women do”

    ” I know I can’t speak for every British person but I would say invariably these women are ugly, common and vulgar”

    ugly, common and vulgar? seems like it.

    “not the norm and are viewed with contempt.”

    Contempt? LOL are you kidding me? that article is basically a ‘why won’t those despicable men marry these fabulous, flawless women instead of acting like kidults and chase young tail?’, nice try though.

  18. Pingback: Linkage is Good for You: Week of February 19, 2012

  19. tripquiverLegion on said:

    DC Phil,

    I agree with other posters – ask her. Email her something to the effect that you are working on personal growth and want to make improvements, yadda, yadda. Give her a few choices, i.e. was it something with me or was it something going on with you – Did something about me turn you off, was it something/someone in your life, a combination, etc.

    Secondly, you should be getting better at sniffing this stuff out sooner. It sounds like three of the last chicks you dated ditched you? Your definitely doing something wrong (no offense). You should head this off earlier with a preemptive pull back on your end or instill doubts and uncertainty in their minds when their behavior warrants it. If she’s acting like a brat tell her flatly and go away for awhile.

    All of my GF’s suspect (or outright know) they may not be my only option, and they aren’t. I have broken up with my two current one’s collectively about 4 times in the past 18 months. They never feel too comfortable and have both said things like “sometimes I not sure you even like me”, or have said in frustration that I was probably with some other girl at that moment. The rub is that these sentiments are probably true – I don’t always like them and sometimes I would rather spend time with someone else depending on how they are acting. It’s is an unfortunate reality in dating a typical American women who is too frequently spoiled, entitled, solipsistic and/or unfeminine.

    • DC Phil on said:

      It’s too late to go down the “I’m making improvements” road you mentioned. I gave it about two weeks, then I was pursuing someone else. Also, no guarantee that I’d have gotten a straight answer from C. had I asked her what the problem was. That’s par for the course anymore.

      As for sniffing out sooner, I’ve gotten better at it. Now I’m at the point where, if I sense that she’s pulling back, I have to ask myself whether she’s worth pursuing at that point. If not, then I let it run its course and am not heartbroken if she chooses to end it. Again, I assume that I’m not going to get a straight answer from her, so I don’t bother asking the question.

      Finally, with the other two women mentioned, they happened within the space of two weeks yes. I consider them flukes. Of the other 30 + women I dated over the past year and a half, they were all learning experiences.

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