Take His Side
There are times when a man – as a friend or close relative of several women – will be on the receiving end of her complaints about husbands and boyfriends. Women do love to wax eloquently and negatively about the men in their lives. It’s perfectly natural but can be tedious for the male friend or relative who has to listen to the whining. I found myself in this position recently when I was talking to the ex-girlfriend from whom I had acquired my dog.
The ex is one of those assertive, almost demanding kind of women who expects everyone to follow her wishes. Is it any wonder why she’s an ex girlfriend? She was quite frustrated that her new boyfriend wasn’t doing what she wanted regarding the pace of the relationship. It’s a bit complicated as there are his pre-teen daughters and an ex-wife who is possibly batshit crazy.
As the conversation progressed, I found myself talking Red Pill issues with the ex-girlfriend. I could see exactly what was going on and didn’t resort to my old, blue pill attitudes by defaulting to the “it’s always the man’s fault” . I was taking his side, not hers. Naturally, my ex became quite upset and was actually yelling with frustration. Her rationalization hamster was taking quite a beating, after all. I rather enjoyed the discussion.
In thinking about the interaction with the ex-girlfriend, I came to the realization that Red Pill men should almost universally support other men when women start complaining about their relationships. Many of you already do this so don’t change a thing. I strongly suspect that a large number of us still revert back to automatically supporting the woman’s side in relationship matters.
It’s easy to support an alpha man’s actions in regards to dating and relationships. There are exceptions, of course. Addictions, criminality, and poor mental health are the most obvious. I have started using this reply when a woman complains about her alpha man:
Well, he’s being a normal man and that’s what you find attractive, right?
Note the questioning nature of the comeback. It encourages the woman to consider why the man is attractive to her. Using the word “normal” serves to reinforce the point that alpha behavior is to be expected. If she continues on with her nattering complaints, shut her down with this:
You could always date women.
Unfortunately, it’s in a woman’s nature to complain. Having an ear for her to bend is not necessarily a bad thing, but only in very controlled moderation. Using the Red Pill mentality when dealing with her relationship complaints can actually have benefits:
1. Cupcake might actually learn a thing or two.
2. You probably won’t be on the receiving end of such future complaints because she knows that her feelings and actions won’t be automatically validated.
It’s a lot harder to defend some beta wuss who’s being a complete relationship chump. I hate hearing such stories because I remember all too well my previous life as that beta wuss. My empathy makes me reluctant to recommend dumping the chump yet that type of relationship is well doomed.
The Private Man 
@tpm
With all due respect, you’re missing the point when it comes to the “receiving end”, and you’re doing the guy thing i e problem solving. Your rationally exploring her complaints, analytically addressing their underpinnings, and suggesting either courses of action she can take, a reappraisal of her assumptions, or a reinterpretaion of the sequnce of events that led her to the emotional state she is describing. All of which would be fine-if she had a penis. She will accept, appreciate and understand none of this, although she will tell she does becuase she doesn’t want to offend you. She wants sympathetic suffering, emotional bonding, and to drone on and on and on and on while you sit,registering yoru “active” listening by looks of concern, sighs, tears if you have them. Support in that sense is all she wants. If you aren’t going to give her that, keep the rest-she’s neither use, appreciate etc. it.
BTW PM check out my riff on “72 virgins” over at HUS-bottom of comments.
Oh, I know absolutely that she just wants a sympathetic ear for her to drone in to. That’s what female friends and beta orbiters are for. Any woman who brings this stuff up to a Red Pill man should get the honest Red Pill treatment. Hence, my blog post. Besides, beating up on the rationalization hamster is prime entertainment.
‘There are exceptions, of course. Addictions, criminality, and poor mental health are the most obvious.’
In such cases, while not necessarily supporting the male, I’d tend to ask the obvious question about her choosing such a person in the first place…
Sometimes these things happen years in. Heart breaking.
Oh oh I misunderstood-and remember I’m a married man, it’s hard to keep in mind that you have options. Guys, reverse what I say; do not let her turn you into her girlfriend which is really shorhand for what a beta male is (Do you kids even know what shorthand is? You dumb bastards can’t write cursive and can type faster than you think-probably not). Another plus side to PM’s advice is that the dizzy bitch will undoubtedly return to the guy anyway, and your defense of him will in her mind solidify her image of you and identification of you with “maleness”(as opposed to her equally dizzy bitch friends who have been taking her side, consoling her, reaffirming her but paradoxically she now disregards/resents because she’s into self-loathing and now that’s them too) such that the next time she and SO fight and she comes running to you she’ll respond to by letting you fuck her, possibly up the ass.
O Enlightenment! Thy name is The Private Man!
Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not having sex with her, you’re her girlfriend.
@ Munson
Learned this lesson the hard way recently. Less problem solving, more compassion. Probably toasted a friendship.
If women didn’t find it so hard to tell other women when they’re talking crap, perhaps they wouldn’t talk so much crap. So often they ‘yes, yes’ agree to the other’s face, then bitch about them later.
But when men disagree, we’re the rude ones?
I agree in general with privateman but TVmunson has an important point. Personally I tend to do active listening and make sure women have vented enough before I tell such truths as they are much more likely to not accept it at that stage. Before a woman has vented enough/gotten enough sympathy/understanding she will resist not only any disagreement but also any concrete solution. You can provide her with the emotional help she needs without really agreeing much or at all and then offer the oposing view in a tactical way. Women then actually apreciate concrete advice at that stage. Once I have suplied enough advice free emotional support I always analyse the situation (providing masculine clarity) and offer solutions/ a course of action (masculine direction) which also can be that there is nothing to do except acept and live with the issue at hand but then I will often say something about how to do that.
It is my experience that this strategy is universally apreceated by women. I have never had any but very positive reactions from doing this. Way more positive than when I only empathized and listened and way, way more positive than when I didn`t listen much but started offering solutions right away. What most people who have learnt to listen well to women don`t see is that they really want more from a man. When they thank me after a talk were I do this it is more like she thanks her father or big brother, she talks up to me, rather than as if she thanked a beta for being “sooo sweat” to listen to her were she is kinda talking down to him when she is thanking him.
IN group settings though I will much more often just plainly disagree. I think though I should learn to sort of game the women into swalling red pill stuff insuch situations as well rather than just argue. Whenver I succeed in leading them emotionally to acept my solution rather than just arguing well logically the likelyhood of changing minds is ten times higher.
PM-you got it said.
I’ve always defended other dudes, even if they’re completely in the wrong.
Not so much out of misplaced altruism, but because 1) I refuse to be an emotional tampon of any kind and 2) it is incredibly fun
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With respect to
“It’s a lot harder to defend some beta wuss who’s being a complete relationship chump. I hate hearing such stories because I remember all too well my previous life as that beta wuss. My empathy makes me reluctant to recommend dumping the chump yet that type of relationship is well doomed.”
I had an idea that I want to think out loud:
“Does he put up with your bullshit? He’s not much of a man, maybe you should leave him.”
Season the cussing according to taste and occasion.
Just added you to my blogroll. Thanks for what you do!
What’s your blog’s address?
(It’s not a formal blogroll; It’s only in my head.)
My blog is in ye olde country of Xanga. It may be a wasteland now, but it’s home :-).
It may simply be she is venting to you so that she gets the treatment she is terrified of asking for, from her boyfriend.
The woman who can complain about her boyfriend to another man … yet still stay with her boyfriend,
is running a game of sorts.
P Ray Speaks the Truth O My Brothers!
In the Odyssey when Odysseus meets Circe she changes his men into pigs (she’s a sorceress). In order to get them back he has to seduce her, but he learns from the gods that before he has sex with her, he must make her promise not to take his “manhood”. Well, in this situation, listening to her, she’s doing what Circe was going to do WITHOUT THE SEX! Don’t let her.
The best response I can come up with, in these situations, is:
“That sucks”
Or if I want to bust her nerves: “What the hell did you do this time?”