The Private Man

Attraction and dating information for all men

Online Dating and Flaking

This is when a woman stops corresponding with you for no stated reason. She simply doesn’t return your latest message, email, or phone call. Even mature women do this.

There could be any reason for it –

1. The arrival of a bigger, better, deal. You’ll know this because she pulls her profile or logs in much less frequently. It’s a competitive world out there and you’re not the only Prince Charming to be knocking on her door.

2. She’s just not that into you. You’ll know this because she’s logging in just as frequently but somehow just can’t muster up the energy to write you. This comes from the “never settle” attitude that women have adopted in regards to dating and relationships. Also bear in mind that before you have an established relationship a woman is looking for reasons to reject you.

3. Her personal life just got too crazy. You’ll know this because she logs in far less often, if at all. Of all the reasons for flaking, this one is the most legitimate. However, women program themselves to completely fill up their off-work hours with all sorts of activities. Very few are content to just spend time alone. A frenzy of activities allows them to rationalize that they have no time for dating or that they are content to be single.

4. Online attention whoring. Women thrive on attention and getting it online is quite enough for some flakey women. Of course, they have no intention of actually meeting you because once they get their attention fix online, they can happily move on to the next guy should their always fragile egos need another pick-me-up. She’ll still be logging in, maybe even changing her profile. Oh, and she’s married or in a serious relationship.

5. They are not serious about online dating. Even the most perfect man cannot get her to respond consistently to online messages. She might log in every few days just to see what’s going on and to check out her very full in box. See number 3 and number 4.

Online flaking happens all the time and while annoying, it shouldn’t be cause for anger. The solution to online flaking is to always be filling the pipeline with new prospects. The more women you are corresponding with, the more options you will have when the inevitable flaking occurs.

Just remember that the purpose of the online correspondence is to escalate to a phone call and then possibly to an actual date. Don’t be an online chatty cathy.

It’s a waste of your time and energy to confront the online flakes with a nasty message. Just stop all contact and block their profiles. It’s easier that way.

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23 thoughts on “Online Dating and Flaking

  1. I find this rather harsh, Private Man! Why block their profiles or get angry at all? Like all relationships, they have their peaks and valleys. It could be she’s politely engaging in conversation, but is not interested in dating. This would be the “Just not into you” option I suppose.

    I think the best thing you can do when someone is “just not into you” or starts communicating less is just be gracious and consider her a new acquaintance that perhaps some day you will pursue again… or maybe not. But getting angry or blocking her or writing her any type of email that implies you are hurt, rejected, insulted, or anything else by her actions just makes you seem insecure and will definitely turn her off.

    If someone suddenly disappears, always give her the benefit of the doubt and never assume it’s about you or do anything to suggest you have lost your confidence. You might send her an email that says something like:

    Haven’t heard from you in awhile and I just wanted to check in. You may have found someone else, and if so, I hope he’s someone special. Just wanted you to know that I find you charming and hope some time we’ll reconnect. Shall we connect on Facebook so we can keep in touch?

    As you say, people stop communicating for many reasons.. Don’t assume the worst and never take it as a rejection…

    • “Haven’t heard from you in awhile and I just wanted to check in. You may have found someone else, and if so, I hope he’s someone special. Just wanted you to know that I find you charming and hope some time we’ll reconnect. Shall we connect on Facebook so we can keep in touch?”

      Ugh. This is worse advice than suggesting stalking her to change her mind. Pathetic. Just reading those words brings forth the image of the most spineless, wet, sappy, grovelling male imaginable.

      And if someone’s ‘not into you’, why would you “consider her a new acquaintance that perhaps some day you will pursue again”?

      Because this is typical advice reflecting what a woman like you would like to hear herself – ie you want to be pursued and pampered and grovelled to because it boosts your own weak self esteem – but as advice to a man – this is a joke.

    • Wake the fuck up.. In your first paragraph you say “It could be she’s politely engaging in conversation, but is not interested in dating.” Then why did she start an online DATING profile? Easy question, she’s an attention whore and wants to take without giving. Or maybe she isn’t into him. But the question then becomes why not just say so? Most men, including myself, are emotionally stable enough to handle the rejection and move on. Women who don’t believe this and/or are afraid of hurting his feelings really need to get over themselves. The fact is, for most men online, dating sites don’t deliver on the results promised. But that isn’t the site owner’s fault. It’s sheer numbers. Men outnumber women in the online dating space by a significant amount. You ladies have your pick of the litter while us men have to compete with hundreds of other men a day for one woman’s attention. Couple that with the large number of female window shoppers on these sites and you quickly start to realize that men are getting sick and tired of having to send upwards of 300 emails on average just to procure a single date which may end up labelled under various negative scenarios including, but not limited to, the gold digger looking for a free meal, the woman who found a better deal after the date, the woman who stands you up or flakes on an arranged date or the woman who is unhappily married and only looking for what she can’t get from her husband elsewhere. The average man finds a relationship through online dating only after an average of 15 dates. Do the math. 15 dates, multiplied by an average of 300 emails equals 4500 emails. And even then there is still the risk that the woman he fell for has no real interest in him and is only looking for a free ride. Women in western culture seem to think it’s perfectly alright to scheme their way through life using men as fodder to accomplish their agendas. Men are realizing this and we don’t like what we’re seeing. And if you think I’m unnecessarily angry, to that I say if you’re not angry then you’re not fucking paying attention.

      • Wow, Chris. Maybe you’re not getting any dates because you ARE angry. Or maybe you’re approaching women that are out of your league. If it’s taking you 300 emails per date, then you’re doing something wrong. I’m also guessing that if you email that many women, then your emails are not very personal which could be another reason why you don’t get a good response rate.

        Here’s my advice on how to get someone to email: http://www.examiner.com/dating-advice-in-boulder/online-dating-how-to-get-a-woman-to-reply-to-a-first-email

        As for the blocking bit, I still think it makes no sense, since the only one it’s going to make more work for is you. But if it makes you feel better, go for it.

      • Hey, it’s Yvette! Long time, no comment.

        Chris is right about the necessity of sending out vast numbers of messages. He’s pissed off, as well he should be. He’s learning the vast frustration of online dating for men and he’s expressing his easily-understandable anger in the most appropriate venue: the Manosphere.

        My response has never been higher than 10%. Here are my metrics based on experience and analysis of the several hundred messages I’ve sent out over the past two years:

        100 sent messages yields
        8 positive responses which of those
        4 will flake and vanish and
        2 won’t settle on a date and then
        2 actual will result in a date

        Bear in mind that I follow your message advice exactly. I am a very good writer (I’ve been published often in major American newspapers) and I take pride in my sense of humor and have written award-winning radio comedy and done both stand-up and improvisational comedy. My profile is solid (reviewed by a dating coach) and I have some good photos. I’m not short at about six feet in boots. I’m fairly ordinary-looking but I am by no means fat (34 inch waist, 42 inch chest).

        100 messages yields 2 actual dates. And I’m considered very good at this. Have some understanding for the guys who aren’t good at it.

        How many messages do I actually get proactively from women? I might get one a week. Usually, it’s only two per month. That’s right, two each month.

        So what do women respond to in a profile that will make them send messages to the guy?

        Looks and quite possibly money. Read this post:

        https://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/stealth-red-pill-lessons-weekend-weirdness/

        I have not logged into that account in two months and it’s still yielding incoming messages from women.

        Now, let’s address that blocking issue knowing how many messages a man has to send out. Blocking avoids mistakenly repeat messages. With so many outgoing messages, how is a guy to know which woman he might have sent a previous message? Well, if the woman is blocked, she won’t even appear in his searches so he won’t make the mistake of a repeat message. That saves time and effort. Even though I’m professional writer, it takes me about 10 minutes to craft a solid outgoing message of only three or four sentences. Consider that most guys aren’t professional writers and how much time they might spend working on a message. I am far more organized with online dating than most guys and I’ve made the mistake of sending the unknowingly repeat message.

      • Hi Private Man,
        I agree that people (both men and women) are becoming more rude with online dating. I wrote about it here: http://www.examiner.com/dating-advice-in-boulder/online-dating-rude-behavior-is-becoming-the-norm

        But getting angry just makes your chances worse, because it will probably come out in your communication. If you don’t like online dating, don’t do it.

        It’s not really that different for men and women. As you saw from your experiment, you got plenty of attention with a cute picture and money. Men are probably more guilty than women of simply looking at the picture. Most of the email I get (when I’m doing online dating) has nothing at all about my profile. It seems almost obvious that the guy is sending the same lines to probably about 100 other women (or maybe 300!)

        If men want a better experience (as far as ratios), i’ve heard eHarmony has more women than men. That’s probably because eHarmony is known to be for people who want a “relationship” rather than a “hookup” and that’s typically more common for a woman. However, I wasn’t impressed with eHarmony and their “29 points of compatibility” matching. They sent me matches that were really far away and more than 10 years older than me. I prefer to be able to search myself.

        In any case, I agree that online dating can be frustrating and that people (both men and women) can be rude, but it really doesn’t help to get mad. Just don’t take it personally and if it’s really that bad, then try other ways of meeting people.

      • Just so we’re clear I’m not one of these guys who have general templated emails that I copy and paste. I always spend 10 or more minutes on a personalized message that clearly shows I took the time to read their profile in it’s entirety by mentioning specific details and commenting on them. However I don’t bow to women, in that I mean I’m not totally agreeable for the sake of possibly being successful. If they mention something I don’t like, which is usually nothing bigger then a choice of mobile OS, I mention I’m not a fan of it. Women usually tend to stick to Blackberries while I myself am a die hard Android fan, just as an example of course. I’m not judgemental about it, I simply state my opinion without disrespecting theirs.

        The reason why I’m angry is because every woman I’ve encountered so far has flaked on me without giving any reason. Now, it isn’t the flaking that gets to me. Like I said, I’m emotionally stable enough to handle the rejection and I’m intelligent enough to deduce that a lack of interest is most probably the reason why her communications have halted. What really gets to me in the implied arrogance of these women. That somehow these women think they are such prizes that only after 2 or 3 emails back and forth, I should already be so emotionally invested in them that hearing “I’m not interested” SHOULD somehow devastate me. Women like this really need to get over themselves. Especially when what passes for a 10 on dating sites usually wouldn’t pass for any higher than a 7 in a real world scenario.

        And again, like i said, if you’re not pissed off then you’re not paying attention.

      • And as for leagues I tend not to believe everyone is that shallow. Just because a woman looks like she belongs on the cover of vogue doesn’t mean she has to suffer from princess syndrome and would only date Matt Damon or Vin Diesel lookalikes.

      • Chris–what I have learned is that it is only worth writing a female first on-line if she has looked at your profile first. If she did not look at my profile first there was say about a 5% chance of her responding. If she looks at it first, then for me its about 50% chance of her responding to an email.

        If you are young, getting angry at the opposite sex is understandable, but it probably wont help you. Unless you are a bonified alpha, you’re going to have to make a major mental/time effort to get a half way attractive women. And it doesn’t get much better as you get older–although you will probably become more valuable to women as a whole, the number of sexually attractive women declines rapidly. By the time your 50, the number of women out there that pass the boner test is virtually nil.

        I suggest taking the red pill if you have not done so and invest in yourself in ways that make you more attractive. For example, ball room dancing…that worked for me. Make some effort now because it really does not get that much better as you get older, IMO. Good luck.

      • Too late for that, I’ve taken the Zeta male route. I’d rather stand on my own merit alone then stand by some entitled princess who believes I should feel lucky as fuck that she even talks to me, let alone let’s me fuck her. Until I can move out of North America, and pursue some foreign women, this is the route I’m taking and I encourage more North American men to do the same. Things won’t get better until these women wake up and see that their feminazi bullshit is only destroying society and family. And this PUA and Game bullshit is just perpetuating things by allowing women to delude themselves into believing that men are the problem. That man living in his car, paying alimony and child support, to a woman he DIDN ‘T want to divorce for children he wants to be a father to…that’s the fucking problem. That man sitting in prison convicted of a rape he didn’t commit simply on the whim of a woman who changed her mind afterwards, that’s the fucking problem. That man in prison convicted of a false domestic violence charge on the whim of a woman who played that specific card in a custody case, that’s the fucking problem. That man who called the police on a physically abusive women, but he’s still the one arrested and taken away from the home, that’s the fucking problem. I took my red pill, I take it you still have to swallow yours.

  2. Anger has nothing to do with it. It’s just a matter of time management and organization. Frankly, I don’t have the time to chase after vapors and strongly encourage all men to take the same tactic regarding online and real life flakes.

    Also, just disappearing is not an indication of good character and good manners. Continuing to provide attention and validation simply reinforces classless behavior.

    The women to whom I send messages are mature adults and I have every right to expect mature adult behavior.

  3. Why block someone? That seems like an angry and immature act. And when do you decide she has “disappeared?” After she doesn’t respond in a week? A month?

    I have many, many guys who have been unresponsive or disappear. In fact, I think this is more common with males than with females. But I would never block them or take it personally. I just assume that they got busy or were not interested. If it’s odd, I’ll usually send them a funny email, perhaps with a multiple choice response form to try and figure out why the communication stopped. When they want to contact me they will, but if I’ve blocked them, they can’t! Many times guys who have “disappeared” will reappear and apologize. I won’t date them, but often we do reconnect as friends.

    I’m someone who almost always responds because I want to be nice. If I’m not interested in dating, I let the guy know that, but some will want to continue to be pen-pals when I’m not interested in that. What should I say: “Leave me alone?” I usually don’t do that, but I do not respond quickly and I hope they come to realize that I’m not interested in being chatty. If need be, I tell them that I’d prefer to just be Facebook friends or let them know that I don’t have time to be pen-pals. Still, if I take awhile to respond, it is no reason to consider me a “vapor” or block me. I think that’s going too far.

    It is certainly more polite to respond, but a lack of response should not be taken personally. Many times people are not even checking their email, but when they do check, if you’ve blocked someone, she won’t even be able to respond.

    Anyway, you, of course, can block if you want, and she probably won’t even know it, but I think that is the immature behavior.

  4. Hughman on said:

    Don’t block the profiles!

    If a convo dies, a classic C&P message saying something along the lines of ‘Shame you haven’t replied, you struck me as someone who isn’t emotionally vacant like so many other people on here’

    I get about a 25% restart rate for no effort. Got a Sunday pre-Valentines day date from a restart, got two more lined up this coming month.

    From what I can tell, some girls are genuinely forgetful, and/or your message gets lost in the maelstrom they receive every day.

    • This is where goals and demographics seriously come into play.

      I do understand your point about restarting a conversation.

      If you are looking simply to “date” with younger women, your advice is spot on.

      I am assuming that the guys doing the online dating thing are more interested in a long term relationship.

      With this in mind, would a fellow be interested in a woman who is that forgetful and therefore without goals – and the subsequent organizational skills – to be serious about her efforts?

      As well, older women (over 40) acting flaky are not particularly attractive.

      Finally, if she’s not paying much attention to the guys she’s not real attracted to, then why spend any time trying to re-pitch any kind of online woo?

      I say block the profile and move on.

      That’s my advice and I’m sticking to it.

      • Hey Private Man,
        I’m blogging about rejection this week on my blog. I have to say, I totally disagree with you on this one. I know it’s hard to be out there in the online dating world, but taking the lack of response personally (or taking anything personally, really) is the absolutely worst thing you can do in my opinion.

        I’m a goal-oriented, thoughtful woman (and a pretty good catch, if I do say so.. very humble, too!) and even though I’m 50, I get quite a bit of email when I’m doing the online dating thing. I also have a very busy life (I’m an editor… so talk about email… I’m responding to it all day long.) If I don’t respond right away, it can be for many reasons… probably mostly because I’m busy and my online dating email is not the top priority. Sometimes I don’t even look at it and then do it all “in batch mode.”

        If I went back and found an email from a guy I thought would be a good match and tried to email him back and found myself blocked… well… I’d probably just think he’d gotten off the site… If I realized he actually blocked me because I hadn’t responded, I’d think, “Glad I didn’t spend any time with THAT guy! He is way too sensitive!”

        Now, of course, it sounds like you’re recommending that if the woman is flaky enough to not respond, she’s the one who is not worth your time. I understand that it can feel rude and disrespectful for someone to not respond. But reality is, most of us are on email overload — not just from online dating, but from work and life. And if a 50-year-old can get a lot of online dating email, you better believe younger women are getting a ton. It may be very true that they filter these out to only those who spark their interest. But a second well-written email just may the trick that makes you stand out from the crowd.

        I totally agree with Hughman and advise everyone to try at least twice before giving up on someone. What’s the harm? As for blocking… That just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

  5. I am advising that men approach online dating in a logical and systematic approach. It’s not a game. The goal is quite simple – to stop online dating.

    If you perceive that blocking a profile is the result of an emotional reaction, that’s your business. Go ahead, get your panties in a bunch over it. A guy with a systematic approach has already moved on.

    If the fellow wants to try a second time, I’m not going to stop him. He just has to realize he’s likely sending a message to a woman who isn’t interested in him or who is simply not that serious about online dating, for whatever reason.

    And Yvette, the reason you are getting lots of interest online is because you’re more attractive than most 50 year old women online. It’s just that simple. Look at the online dating profile photos of more typical 50 year old women.

    I have a hunch the reason that you find the “block and move on” approach so inappropriate is that you want women to have more options than men. Well, I’m the side of the single guy over 45. I want him to maximize his options and his efficiency with the online dating experience.

    Again, we simply cannot ignore demographics. Hughman may be going after a demographic of women that is younger and therefore less mature and thoughtful. He simply may be chasing girls and not women.

    I recommend you read Dalrock’s spectacularly good post on post-marital spinsterhood:

    http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/post-marital-spinsterhood/

    It ties in well with the concept of emotional pornography.

    In fact, I think you should read all of his posts regarding post marital spinsterhood and then respond here.

  6. I am tempted to continue this debate, but since you said I was attractive, I will give you a break (on this thread!) Your little patterned design is very attractive, too! 😉

  7. Stopping all contact makes sense, but what’s the point of blocking?

    Is there some kind of psychic payoff from blocking or is it just a time management thing to make sure you don’t accidentally message again them in the future?

    I agree that following up with a nasty message a terrible idea. Some girls have shown me messages like this they have gotten from guys and…wow…even I thought some these idiots needed therapy. It just seems wrong to get that worked up over a girl they don’t even know.

  8. Blocking for me is strictly a time management issue. I harbor no resentment towards women who delay or ignore, I just have better things to do to and more emails to send out.

  9. Pingback: The 10 Commandments of Online Dating for Men | THE UNIVERSITY OF MAN

  10. Simply don’t bother with internet dating especially if you are a man. I am somewhat of a patient person but I don’t have the patience to deal with internet dating and all the B.S. that goes with it. Most women even in the real world (not all) are flakes but the internet has the biggest flakes when it comes to women and even men. I refuse to make excuses and justify their flake like behavior. I just save myself a lot of aggravation and refuse to look for women on the internet. There are so many cool women in the real world who don’t hide behind a computer screen looking for attention. Any woman or man who is about something should scrap internet dating and social websites and get out in the real world and meet people. Dating sites and social websites exist to make the owners of these sites money at the expense of people becoming addicted to these stupid sites and wasting their time and lives on the internet. Get out in the real world people and abandon all these stupid sites.

  11. SalsaSeeksChips on said:

    Ms Francino is a professional dater. Total turn off. Might buy her a cup of coffee but she sure as hell ain’t getting a 5 star mean when she’s shopping the next best thing. Keep writing your blogs Francino

  12. Pingback: The 10 Commandments of Online Dating for Men « stagedreality

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