Two Single Women Over 40 – And Observations

As a smoker, I take my smoke breaks with the few other smokers in this fairly large office building. My compatriots in nicotine are mostly ordinary people working white-collar jobs, just like me. There are two 40-plus single dames who I chat with regularly, albeit briefly. They both know that I give attraction and dating advice to the post-divorce crowd.

Because they know I have a blog and I run into them regularly, I am going to be extremely diplomatic with my words. Both women are over 40 and to a 50-something guy, they are not unattractive. One has a teen-aged son, the other is never-married (I think) and without kids. So have we have Mom and Non-Mom. Non-Mom is actively looking for a male romantic interest in her life. Mom would probably date a guy if he fell in her lap.

Non-Mom is frustrated with the whole dating process. She’s making many of the classic mistakes that women make in the search for romance. But Non-Mom is actively looking. She’s doing the online dating thing and does get out of the house with yoga and walking. Recently, she gave out her phone to a guy she met on the street (think city street, not suburbia). So Non-Mom is doing that part right. She also dresses in a very feminine manner. That alone will get attention from men.

Mom, on the other hand, is more circumspect about her romantic endeavors. “I’m just so busy for dating.” My readers will know exactly that actually means. I just looked at her and stated simply, “then you’re not ready for dating.” Her reaction was expected, she back-peddled a bit and changed her approach to the conversation. Again, as expected. Her back story is all about being attracted to the wrong types of men after her divorce. Good for excitement, poor for relationships, hence, her circumspection. Mom does dress well, just not as feminine as Non-Mom.

I do talk about some Red Pill subjects with these two women while we smoke. The listen patiently but I don’t expect it to sink in very much. It takes an incredible amount of effort to be introspective enough to adjust attitudes. My readers know the process. Non-Mom will likely meet her relationship goal. She’ll be most disappointed in the whole dating scene until she meets her version of Prince Charming. This is because she’s actively working at meeting men.

Mom is receptive but too passive in her quest for romance. Her challenge is that few men in this age range actively approach women. I will wager that mostly men over 60 years old will approach her while she’s out and about. I sense she’ll take it well but wistfully wonder why aren’t guys her own age aren’t approaching her. It’s because men her age with the confidence and charisma to approach women will be approaching younger women.

Attraction and dating changes a great deal once a certain age is reached. It’s hard to understand and accept that the attraction balance shifts towards the men. A lot of guys my age don’t understand that and this keeps them from working on self-improvement to be even more attractive to the opposite sex. These same guys don’t understand that single women want to approached, even if just for validation purposes. This is the generation of men who came of age in the 1980s and were taught to be Sensitive New Age Guys (SNAGS). This is also the generation when herpes and AIDS burst into the sexual marketplace. It affected us and reprogramming is a tough process.

To my commenters, exercise diplomacy please, I see these two women almost every day. And no, no photos of them.

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  1. #1 by Tarnished on April 24, 2014 - 8:44 PM

    Why has non mom waited till this age to find a mate? Does she actually want a boyfriend/husband or is she simply caving into social pressures that tell her she “has to be in a relationship to be happy”?

    • #2 by theprivateman on April 24, 2014 - 10:44 PM

      I can’t reveal too much but I will say that she has been in serious long-term relationships and that’s a good proxy for marriage.

      I’ve read womens’ online dating profile where at 45 years old and unmarried, she’s claimed that her longest term relationship was only one year. That’s a red flag, communist level.

      • #3 by Tarnished on April 24, 2014 - 11:16 PM

        Ah, okay. So she’s the type who *wants* a man to commit, but hasn’t gotten a proposal yet (for whatever reason).

        Eh, marriage isn’t for me, but for what it’s worth I hope both of these women find guys who can make them happy, and whom they can make happy in return.

  2. #4 by Flip on April 24, 2014 - 9:18 PM

    I am older than they are but don’t really understand the point of establishing a relationship with a woman who is unable to give you children. They’ve expired and their value to men is pretty much nil, except for short term stress relief.

    • #5 by Tarnished on April 24, 2014 - 11:43 PM

      It probably works out better for couples who never wanted children in the first place. I think if you want to have kids it’s better for the parents to be roughly the same age, and to start out fairly young. Women because it decreases the likelihood of issues during pregnancy/healthier baby, men because they should be able to spend their more energetic/physically flexible years with their children.

      I’ve known 10 year old kids who’s moms were 45 and their dads were 60…it’s just odd.

      • #6 by Flip on April 25, 2014 - 1:14 PM

        Dating with the possibility of children in the future and dating where that is not a possibility are two intrinsically different things. I remember talking to a married female co-worker who was upset that a 30 year old female co-worker was basically being beseiged by men who wanted to date her while another 45 year old female co-worker, also attractive, had no one interested. She was upset about the disparity. I pointed out that a man dating a 30 year old means a possible family and the extension of his lineage into the future while dating a 45 year old meant only having someone pleasant to have dinner with.

      • #7 by Tarnished on April 25, 2014 - 1:32 PM

        @Flip

        Of course, I wouldn’t argue otherwise. My point was that if *both* the man and woman in question have no desire for children, and each simply wants a life/sexual companion to travel, spend time, and dine with, then a 30 yr old and 45 yr old with nice personalities and moderate attractiveness are fairly equal partners.

        Example: I’m 30 and have no desire for marriage/children, and my older FwB had a vasectomy before he met me…thus, it works out well for both of us. If I wanted kids/commitment I’d seek out a different partner, obviously.

  3. #8 by girlwithadragonflytattoo on April 24, 2014 - 9:26 PM

    It’s very true what you say about attraction going up for men as they age (if they take care of themselves well)…. My mom was awesome in that she didn’t lie to me, she let me know that women’s value (only looks – not their actual self-worth) goes down with age, whereas men’s really does increase. My husband is 29 and he seriously keeps getting more attractive – especially so to friends and random women!

  4. #9 by MarkyMark on April 24, 2014 - 9:51 PM

    Dude,

    At my age (52), my sex drive is only a fraction of what it was; when it comes to sex, I can take it or leave it. To put it even more bluntly, I find a good dump more satisfying than an orgasm. I’m not sure I WANT a woman in my life anymore. That’s why this single, never married dude never approaches women…

    MarkyMark

    • #10 by Tarnished on April 24, 2014 - 11:34 PM

      @MarkyMark

      Fair enough, but sex drive is a pretty individual thing. At 52, you don’t care that much, which works in your favor. At 48 and 29 respectively, my FwB and I still crave sex with each other and manage to meetup 1-3 times a week in spite of our schedules and distance between us. Age may decrease one’s sex drive, true, but it would seem to be unique to each person.

      • #11 by Novaseeker on April 25, 2014 - 6:38 AM

        Generally it decreases with age, although it’s true that the degree to which this happens varies by individual. Some people are more sexual than others at all ages, really. I do think that it is at least part of the issue with women in this age range, as the OP says — the peer-age guys who are higher T and still care a lot about chasing women around are going to go for younger women, because they can, whereas many of the rest of the guys are lower T and don’t care that much about chasing women anymore, even if they are alone themselves. Kind of “confirmed bachelor” types, even if they were active with women when they were younger. I don’t think too many guys are like that if they are super-horny, so I think it’s really a divide between the men in this range (say 45-55) who are still quite sexual and the men in this age range who are not — and there are more in the latter category by this age than there were when this cohort was in its 20s or 30s, certainly.

        Stated differently, finding and maintaining a relationship is always some degree of hassle. If you have a strong sex drive that needs to be sated, and you are attracted and enjoy the company of the other person, then that usually more than offsets the hassle. If you have a lower sex drive by this point in life, the hassle may be less than offset, and these are the guys who can’t be bothered. So, yes, it’s age dependent to some degree (more lower T lower libido guys at this age than when they were younger), but also individual. And the women are squeezed,really, because the more high T men in this range will be looking younger than a mid-40s woman — because they can.

      • #12 by Tarnished on April 25, 2014 - 9:13 AM

        @Novaseeker

        Precisely. Generalities can certainly be made about levels of sexual desires but they do not pertain to everyone. Helpful for statistical purposes…not so much for saying “X always happens”.

        I agree that finding a relationship would seem to be a hassle…I honestly can’t speak from experience. I went on 2 dates in high school, but they were overtly chivalrous boys so it didn’t work out past the 1st night with either of them.

        If I didn’t meet my current FwB when I was 21, or didn’t start the “benefits” at 22, I would most likely be a 30 year old virgin right now. Not because I couldn’t find willing men to sleep with, but because the idea of sex with random partners is extremely off-putting. However, I look at the majority of my friends, customers, and relatives…or even just read online…and am so relieved I feel no need for a “real” relationship. I count my lucky stars that I didn’t have to go through any hellish or awkward dates to find the lover I have, and wish it could happen for everyone.

  5. #13 by superslaviswife on April 25, 2014 - 4:38 AM

    If only the Non-Mom had started looking younger. This is the sort of attitude most 20-30-somethings could do with adopting. Would reduce the number of people in the Mom’s situation.

  6. #14 by cloudslicer on April 25, 2014 - 7:33 AM

    There is certainly truth in the statement that men with options will usually go after younger women. But there is another problem as well which has to do with the attitude or sense of entitlement of certain women:

    If you ask single women over 30 why they are still single although seemingly looking for a man, their usual reply will be “I haven’t found the right one yet” or they begin talking about men unable to meet their high standards. Whereas I perfectly understand people having high standards (everybody should have them) – the idea that vice versa they might actually have to improve THEMSELVES AS WELL in order to live up to OTHER PEOPLE’S STANDARDS seems to be foreign to many of them. It’s obviously easier to blame others than to accept responsibilty. The mere suggestion of working on slight improvements in order to be (even ;-)) more attractive is often received as a terrible insult by these women…

  7. #15 by The Ronin on April 25, 2014 - 8:17 AM

    I’ll be 60 next birthday, still have a good sex drive, but rarely approach women over 45, I’ve already been through seeing what batshit craziness peri menopause induced in my X of 20+ years. There’s not much upside for any guy marrying women of that age, they are a potential EPL bomb waiting to go off.

  8. #16 by Take The Red Pill on April 25, 2014 - 11:58 AM

    BEWARE of ‘Non-Mom’ — ANY woman over thirty and still unmarried is that way for a GOOD reason, if not a multitude of reasons. The single women over thirty who act and dress ‘more feminine’ are just changing their tactics and camouflage in the hope of starting a ‘relationship’/marrying a walking wallet/ATM so that they can leech off him (if marrying, by frivorcing him later).

  9. #18 by Lady JS on April 25, 2014 - 5:11 PM

    Know woman in same age range — she’s been married 6 times — 2 ending in husband’s death, 4 ending in divorce. She is already living with new partner and has managed to get him to sign over his life insurance and property to her. She’ll never re-marry cause it would cost her the benefits from her last husband. Her house is always chaotic with a lot of drinking and fighting. Also she has always been very obese, very much a tomboy in how she acts and dresses, though she does have pretty hair and cute face. She’s also a good cook. My point, maybe it’s just luck who gets married and who doesn’t sometimes anyway. Men have always wanted her despite her weight, definitely unfeminine in looks, and even age, she has ALWAYS had a husband when she wanted one.

  10. #19 by wingman on April 26, 2014 - 10:19 PM

    Being over 50, I am pleasantly surprised (relieved) at finding women over 40 increasingly attractive. Who wants a woman for kids anyway? A woman of peaceful mind and average looks beats an attractive emotional tornado anytime. Peaceful minds are easier to find in the over-40 set. Hot babe with a temper? Nein, Danke. Won’t put up with that anymore.

  11. #20 by The Ronin on April 27, 2014 - 8:21 AM

    Wingman, that’s not been my experince that women over 40 have a peaceful mind, just the opposite. The 40’s are BSC territory.

  12. #21 by Master Distiller (Third Floor Distillery) on April 27, 2014 - 4:32 PM

    I’ve dated several women who were kindergarten teachers. Because there are few men in education it makes sense why there are a lot of single teachers over 30 years old. There’s also the reasonable possibility that many of them are shy or introverted and therefore don’t get out to meet enough men in their day to day lives. By the same token, there are many men in the same boat (think engineers and IT guys). I suspect many women in the corporate cube farms are surrounded by nothing but women as well and don’t interact with many available men either. In other words, I’m not as untrusting of women under say 35 who are still single. The working environment has changed so much that it now looks like a junior high school dance: girls on one side of the room, boys on the other.

    In any case, I agree with whoever said that women still want to be approached. They always have and always will. The reasons for this we know: ego protection and validation. Women, in general, can’t handle the rejection. But at the end of the day, if a woman is not being approached enough or at all, then her behavior has to change if she wants to find a man. In the end, it doesn’t matter what we think the opposite sex “ought” or should do. What matters is how the market is actually behaving and adjust our personal behavior/actions accordingly. Shakespeare’s famous line, “All the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players…” If you’re a single woman in the market for a man and aren’t getting approached enough or at all then you would do well to remember this quote every day. Every time you step out your front door to go to work, go grocery shopping, go to fill up your gas tank, et cetera, you’re on stage. So play your part. By “part”, I mean role. The role for this character is a single female who has a lot to offer the right guy and is approachable and willing to commit to do whatever it takes to find him. The majority of the women I see are not approachable at all. They’re either too absorbed with their smartphones or just have a semi-broody, go-eat-shyte look on their faces. There’s nothing about their demeanor that would make a man think she’s a good or pleasant person to be around much less to even approach.

    I understand if a woman can’t approach a guy. Fine. But at least have a pleasant smile or look on your face directed at the guy you do want to approach you. That is if you can peel your eyes away from your iPhone long enough to let the sun shine on your face. When he does approach you, engage in the conversation! Much like jiujitsu, you give and take in the exchange. Ebb and flow, ebb and flow. Don’t be passive while on stage. Be active and engage in the characters(men) and the dialogue. Try to understand what the other characters are feeling and thinking and see it from their point of view. What is their role here and what should my response be to that? (Sorry to go all Stanislavsky on you here but I’m just trying to be consistent with the metaphor/quote from Shakespeare above.)

    In conjunction with above, The Private Man has given golden advice: look for at least one thing positive in every man you meet. One may be a good dresser. Another may have beautiful eyes. Another may be in great shape or be really funny. And yet another may be well-spoken or highly intelligent. Whatever. But you should be actively looking at every man you see walking down the street looking for something positive about him. Over time this will have the effect of re-calibrating your mind to see (and hopefully act upon) opportunities that your competition will miss. This will greatly increase your chances of finding a partner.

    In the end, it will be up to you to make it happen. Unless you’re an 18 year old Victoria Secret model, being passive is a very poor strategy in the dating game.

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