Dating 2.0 – Good News & Bad News For Women

One of the most prominent and public of the Pick Up Artistry (PUA) guys is Roosh. He travels the world, writes books, and also blogs (link below). His forum is quite active with a few thousand guys in ongoing discussions about women, relationships, and life in general. His latest blog post (link below) describes a phenomenon that seems quite natural for younger men. Here’s the money quote:

Fast forward to today and I don’t get nearly as many emails from guys expressing their desire for girlfriends or marriage. In the past, game used to be seen as a means to an end, but I see a shift where now game is the end. Many guys just want to fuck a lot of women for an extended period of time. They seek more to imitate rock stars than stable family men.

The main reason for this shift is that there is little incentive for men to choose monogamy, which used to be a requirement for regular sex. But now women are volunteering to be in harems. Players only need to send a terse text message with improper grammar to get women to come over for sex.

A middle-aged guy with confidence, competence, Charisma, and leadership can also play the mini-relationship game. I personally know several gray-haired lotharios doing precisely that, usually with younger women. This is actually good news for women looking for commitment. It’s good news for two reasons -

1. She can quickly screen out such commitment-avoident men by not rushing into the bedroom for some sexy time. The lotharios will quickly move on but a man interested in commitment won’t rush things. Of course, she will likely be very attracted to such cads and tend to ignore other men. Thankfully, there’s an exercise for that (links below).

2. She can learn the feminine skills necessary to create attraction and maintain a man’s interest to the point of commitment. Such information is widely available in areas of the ‘Net unaffected by the poison of the mainstream media. Of course, these will be the politically incorrect feminine skills so it will be challenging to square off against some ridiculous and emotionally damaging social expectations.

It’s bad news for women because as more and more men understand and practice their Charisma, more and more men will be tempted to eschew a committed relationship and go for soft harems or a series of mini-relationships. To counter this, a woman is required to understand and learn how to be feminine in the context of a committed relationship. That is something outside the scope of this blog. However, Athol Kay (link below) can take over nicely at that point.

RooshV

RoosyV – The Rise Of The Mini-Relationship

A Dating Exercise For Women

A Dating Exercise For Women – Amazing Follow Up

Athol Kay (Book and Blog)

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  1. #1 by Jack on December 13, 2012 - 12:10 PM

    This is bad news for Women because by and large 90% of them want children. And what happens is that they turn 30 and it is very hard to discern the marriage minded guy from the mini-relationship guy until you’ve spent 6-9 months dating him. So if you end up picking a mini-relationship guy you end up wasting another 6 to 9 months of your time with a dead end. Now instead of being 30 years old looking for a husband and father of your children, your 31 looking for a husband and father of your children and we all know that every year that passes past the age of 30 it gets significantly harder for a woman to find commitment from a man of value.

    I’ve seen this play out a zillion times before my very eyes. Some chick i’m friends with starts banging some dude, they bang for about a month or two and then she starts internally asking herself if this guy is going to buy the goods long term or if he is going to scatter if she brings up the “talk.” What’s really funny about this situation is how dicey it is for women to bring up the “talk.” They worry that if they bring it up they will scare him away, they worry that if they DON’T bring it up, they will waste their valuable time trying to land a guy before the dreaded age of 35.

    Women have made their own beds by fucking around all through their 20’s and now trying mightily to find a worthy man in their 30’s. The problem is that men don’t really figure out women until their 30 and they by that time, they want to date women in their 20’s. It’s a vicious cycle that really hurts women far more then men. Mostly because a man can cash out anytime he wants with a 31 year old….because they ALL want to get married and have kids. I don’t’ care what they say.

    • #2 by theprivateman on December 13, 2012 - 12:14 PM

      Yes, this is very true for women seeking children. Bear in mind that my posts for women are intended for the post-divorce woman who already has children.

    • #3 by judgybitch on December 14, 2012 - 6:28 PM

      In my experience, if you offer men what they want, they are mad crazy ready to get married. I had three serious marriage proposals before Mr. JB.

      Proposal 1: I was 19 and he was an amazing guy. I said no because I totally and completely bought into the idea that I HAD to have a degree in useless before I could possibly even consider getting married. So I said no, and went off to college. #fuckingstupid

      Proposal 2: He was nice but he had his money (a lot of it) handed to him by his father, and we did not share the same values about work and responsibility and self-sufficiency. I would have preferred his father, honestly.

      Proposal 3: Absolutely perfect, but a widower (his wife died of ovarian cancer very young) with two teenage children who did NOT want another family. His children were lovely and he was truly a great man, but when it came down to it, I found I wanted a family of my own.

      So what did I have to offer:

      Attractive, slim and appropriately dressed. I’m blonde with blue eyes, and I suspect that because those are recessive traits, men prefer them. Their own genes are likely to be expressed in any children.

      Not a slut. I dated all those men for MONTHS before we jumped between the sheets. It was the hottest thing ever. Delayed gratification is a powerful aphrodisiac.

      I cared about where, when and what they ate, even if I wasn’t the one cooking. I firmly, totally, absolutely believe that food is THE key to a man’s heart. Not because men can’t provide their own food (bullshit), but because eating is something we NEED to do, and taking care of another person by feeding them is a trusting, loving and ultimately heartbinding thing to do.

      I kept my bitching for my girlfriends. Still a rule I follow. Men don’t understand, don’t care and don’t want to hear about women’s petty frustrations. They just don’t. Other women DO! I can chat with my girls for HOURS about how shitty it is that UGG boots were NOT on sale, even though the flyer said they would be, and how frustrating it is when the yoga teacher is just an asshole.

      I always say yes to sex. Even if I’m tired or crabby or pissed off about something, because I understand how women’s desire works. Once things are under way, I have NEVER had a bad time. A man’s hands are the best stress reliever and anti-depressant ever invented. Being held against a man’s chest makes the word safe and wonderful and warm.

      I give him space. Nights out with the guys, watching the game on a Sunday afternoon, fiddling in the garage. It’s NOT a personal assault on me. I need time, too, so I don’t hesitate to give my guy some space.

      No jealousy! Nah. You don’t own your man and he doesn’t own you. That kind of shit is just controlling, impulsive and insecure. You don’t allow yourself to go there, ever. End. Of. Story.

      If you’re going to do one thing, brush your hair. Men love luscious hair that smells wonderful and feels soft and is unstyled enough to allow them to touch it. I confess, I fail at this a lot. But I think about it! Today my hair is in a ponytail and ballcap because I’m a lazy bitch, and when my husband glanced at me with one eyebrow raised, I thought “shit, woman, comb your fucking hair!” – oops!

      The sad truth is that marriage sucks because women suck. Yep. I said it. I take heart in the fact that younger women are starting to understand just how much their “independence” is costing them, and the pendulum is swinging back.

      As it always does.

      • #4 by theprivateman on December 14, 2012 - 6:33 PM

        I am so glad to have found Judgybitche’s blog. Of course, I recommend that she tone down the fucking cursing, shit.

      • #5 by judgybitch on December 14, 2012 - 6:36 PM

        It keeps the Mormon housewives at bay, dude. Fucking Mormon housewives. Brrrr.

      • #6 by John Galt on December 17, 2012 - 1:48 AM

        “I kept my bitching for my girlfriends. Still a rule I follow. Men don’t understand, don’t care and don’t want to hear about women’s petty frustrations. They just don’t.”

        This. My biggest pet peeve is when I am seeing someone and they constantly whine and moan about work this, work that. I DONT CARE. I love it when they ask “you have a really interesting job, why don’t you ever talk about it?” and I reply with “because no sane person wants to hear about another person’s work frustrations”. They usually shut up after that.

        p.s. – what planet do you come from? have a little sister?

      • #7 by anonympus on December 18, 2012 - 4:35 PM

        nice!
        Got sister?

  2. #8 by deti on December 13, 2012 - 12:25 PM

    “It’s bad news for women because as more and more men understand and practice their Charisma, more and more men will be tempted to eschew a committed relationship and go for soft harems or a series of mini-relationships. To counter this, a woman is required to understand and learn how to be feminine in the context of a committed relationship.”

    And the complaints about that bad news are getting louder and more frequent.

    I’m hearing more and more from men, at least in the ‘sphere and more IRL, that marriage is out of the question. I’m hearing more and more married men saying privately if they had it to do over again they would not have married. Even I as a married man cannot in good faith recommend marriage. The risks are too great, too costly, and stacked hopelessly against men.

    The evidence is growing that this is scaring the hell out of commitment/security minded women (which most are). And frankly, it should.

    • #9 by deti on December 13, 2012 - 12:50 PM

      The risks are too dichotomous.

      If you win, you’ll win huge.

      If you lose, it could very well be game over.

    • #10 by M3 on December 13, 2012 - 1:11 PM

      The funny thing is, at least here in the more liberal area.. im hearing more and more women talking about how overrated and unnecessary marriage is for them. As long as they’re living the ‘fabulous’ empowered independent life… with career goals, travel, education and carousel riding ahead of commitment…

      I’d like to be able to fast forward a few years and see if their tune doesn’t change to a high pitched wail as they’re left behind in spinsterville.

    • #11 by deti on December 13, 2012 - 2:50 PM

      M3:

      As you said below, I would guess the women you’re hearing this from are either younger women who really aren’t thinking 5 to 10 years ahead; or older women rationalizing their relationship failures.

      The men who are saying “no marriage” I think really mean it, now and forever. But I’m seeing a lot of men who have been married before and divorced, who are actively swearing off marriage and say they will never, ever marry again no matter how good the deal looks or how attractive the woman.

      • #12 by Maven3 on December 14, 2012 - 9:33 AM

        Who said no-to-marriage-forever?
        It’s not like we don’t want to marry, but examining current demography of avaialable girls, I filter about 95% of them as un-marriageable.

        Learning game is neccessity now. It takes time, but after you learn it and self-develop you become picky.

        Recently I have meet my ex from about 8 years back. She was 25 (easy 8hb from pictures I keep) when we started dating then and was very bitchy. From my current knowledge, she was fucking around, keeping me as under-sexed backup. Then I was typical, clueless AFC with White Knight mind.
        Fastforward to now – she’s alone, chubby and even makeup cannot hide her tired face. Maybe 5.5hb (with good makeup!). I have decent income, been weight lifting and learnt some of game – I am around 7.5 (and hope to get to 8-8.5, maybe 9 in 2-3 years if I come back to my home country)

        The roles have been completely reversed – now I am prize and the most I can consider is to sport-fuck her once with kevlar-condom (and that will be exception, as I don’t go above 27). Commitment? Not a chance!

        What she can do with that now? Absolutely nothing.
        What she could do if she played this right? We could have had nice family.

      • #13 by M3 on December 17, 2012 - 9:58 AM

        @ Maven3

        BOOM headshot.

        “What she can do with that now? Absolutely nothing.
        What she could do if she played this right? We could have had nice family.”

        There is no amount of plastic surgery capable of fixing you when you hit the wall at such a high rate of speed. Those who don’t place enough value on the things that really matter early in life when they have the greatest opportunity afforded to them to snatch it gain zero sympathy from me. Zero.

  3. #14 by Maven3 on December 13, 2012 - 12:45 PM

    I am afraid it’s too late for current generation of sluts.
    They will not able to rewind the time, so they might as well learn how to speak cat.

    As for 1 & 2 – game will develop to cover that as well…

    • #15 by DC Phil on December 17, 2012 - 7:44 AM

      Just keep in mind one thing . . . I’m starting to see Game as a return to the days when men were concerned about improving the sake of improving themselves, not necessarily for scoring a girlfriend, wife, or the occasional pussy. In today’s day and age, seeking the almighty ‘gina can be time-consuming and maddening. As for me, I sometimes prefer to stay home and read, or do things that provide myself the kind of mental and emotional sustenance that I need to function in society.

      If it’s important for you to find a wife and have kids one day, then that’s your long-term goal. In the meantime, prepare yourself for when you’re not with a woman. Trust me . . . if you can show internal value in other ways, that will matter a great deal.

  4. #16 by ianironwood on December 13, 2012 - 12:46 PM

    This should scare the holy fuck out of women, from their 20s into their 40s. If they want to see what their future is like, they should ask their Japanese counterparts. In Japan, up to 60% of the below-40 male population considers themselves “herbivores” — dedicated to solitary pursuits like masturbation and videogames, and unwilling to even date romantically, much less marry and procreate. Japan is the bleeding edge of post-industrial society, so they bear study.

    Consider this, ladies: what if only one out of every three guys you meet — not just the handsome ones but ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE — was even willing to date, much less consider any kind of commitment? That’s the future we’re rolling toward, wherein only the bound-and-determined Wolf Alphas are willing to marry. And we have much higher standards than the rank-and-file.

    • #17 by M3 on December 13, 2012 - 1:14 PM

      Men play life like chess and think many moves ahead. Women play life by feelings and living in the moment of now.

      Why would women be scared? They are simply unable to comprehend 10-20 years from now, much less who’s bed they’re going to end up in next weekend because the conversation just felt so real and ‘it just happened’.

      The only moment it scares them is when the next move forces them to realize their time is up, and they’re stuck in ‘check’.

      • #18 by DC Phil on December 17, 2012 - 7:45 AM

        Good analogy about chess and thinking ahead. I think this is truly hard-wired into we men, just like living in the moment is hard-wired into women.

    • #19 by taterearl on December 13, 2012 - 4:23 PM

      They got Pa Government and Ma Justice System. The gravy train will just keep on rolling…in their minds.

      And like I saying…the single life or priesthood looks better everyday over marriage.

  5. #20 by Candide on December 13, 2012 - 8:52 PM

    I got some light grilling by older family friends the other day on why I’m hardly ever in a LTR let alone planning to get married (I’m about to hit 30). On paper, I’m the ideal boyfriend / husband material, and in a way very similar to their eldest son (early 40s, still not married).

    My answer was something like:

    “Sure, but whom am I going to marry? In your generation, girls graduates from high school with marriage being a priority, so they were ready then and in their 20s. Now they prioritize uni, travel, friends, hobbies, pets and Facebook above serious relationships and marriage in their younger years, so we can’t marry them then. OTOH, while they figure all that out, we realise how much better life is without marriage! By the time the girls say they’re ready in their 30s, we’re already having a great time, and we can cook, clean and take care of ourselves better than any of them, because none of them has bothered to learn those skills, unlike women from your time.”

    Their response was something like: “yeah, you’re right, our time was very different…” and stopped the topic.

    I didn’t even have to bring up the N-count and fat epidemic!

    Even girls who say they want commitment aren’t learning shit to be commitment worthy. They just… want it, and want us to give them commitment lol

    • #21 by Maven3 on December 14, 2012 - 7:47 AM

      I am similar boat here – 30+ yrs, programmer, good income, well-travelled…
      And what? – no girl wants to date. If they date they want me to pay and then come LJBF.

      Some time ago went PUA, bought leather jacket and started weight-lifting. Result: pulling chicks left and right. Banged more in year than my whole life.

      Now, when I ask for age and I am hearing >27, I eject.
      Getting married? Only for kids and only 8hb+

  6. #22 by Ronin on December 13, 2012 - 10:03 PM

    What’s with women and travelling? Don’t they realise every blasted time they mention how they love travelling, men (red pilled) translate country to cockas?

    • #23 by Candide on December 13, 2012 - 10:41 PM

      Cockas aside, they don’t learn shit from all that travelling either. It’s the equivalent of kids visiting a zoo – entertainment, not education. They waste a lot of time & money in return for not much more than tourist photos (their duck faces on photos of the places you can easily look up on the Internet) and SWPL bragging rights. Still ignorant about the countries and cultures they’ve claimed to have visited, in fact it’s worse because having a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, as the saying goes. All it does is to inflate their egos and perceived SMV / MMV.

      • #24 by A♠ on December 13, 2012 - 10:53 PM

        “It’s the equivalent of kids visiting a zoo – entertainment, not education.”

        Brilliantly put.

      • #25 by DC Phil on December 16, 2012 - 12:44 PM

        I can second that emotion. Until a few years ago, I never could quite understand what the thing was with (American, especially) chicks and traveling. Now, on the one hand, an American who actually has a passport and who uses it to visit places other than Canada and Mexico gets some points in my book. It shows that they realize there’s a wider world out there than the US of A. On the other hand, where have they usually gone? Paris, Barcelona, London, Rome, Florence (or nearby Cortona if they’ve loved “Under the Tuscan Sun”), Pisa, etc. In other words, the touristy spots on package tours so that they can check them off their lists, and have the duckface pics to prove it in the SMV. I can’t count how many times I’ve seen chicks’ online dating pics including Westminster Abbey, the London Eye, Notre Dame, and Macchu Picchu, to name a few.

    • #26 by Richard Cranium on December 14, 2012 - 3:57 AM

      “Love to travel” is their way of setting their SMV. The more and bigger trips that some chump take them on the higher they perceive their SMV to be.

      • #27 by M3 on December 17, 2012 - 10:12 AM

        I give a wide berth to any woman who talks about her passport being one of the 6 things she can’t live without. This tells me:
        -lives entirely in the moment
        -cannot be grounded in the reality of life but requires constant fantasy settings
        -requires constant stimuli and change to be happy
        -always on the lookout for something new like a drug addict

        You can just smell the ‘commitment’ coming off her.

  7. #28 by greenlander on December 14, 2012 - 1:12 AM

    The MMP now could be summed up like this: “women of marriageable age don’t want to get married.”

    A decent-looking woman of, say, twenty-two can get marriage from a decent beta 5-10 years older.

    But those women don’t want to get married. And even if they say they do, they gravitate toward guys like Tucker Max. The guy who will actually marry them is invisible to them.

  8. #29 by Zeus on December 14, 2012 - 1:49 PM

    I think Marriage is fast becoming a obsolete. No sense bitching about it. If the SMP/MMP is to change it must come from Women recognizing the need to reduce the risk and create incentive for men. Good luck with that.

    The current state of affairs is quite liberating for me. It truly is the golden age for an aware (unmarried) man. If some chick wants marriage from me she must 1) behave as marriage material. That is act like women acting in the 1950’s when the divorce rate was <10%. 2) bring back the traditions, as in the white dress, "Honor and obey", and be submissive. Most gals balk at that which is okie-dokie with me.

    But really aside from that why bother?

    • #30 by M3 on December 17, 2012 - 10:15 AM

      “I think Marriage is fast becoming a obsolete.”

      As i said.. women here in liberal central brazenly write it off. It’s not compatible with their lifestyle/choices. So in the process of living the life of having it all, which includes sampling men on the carousel.. they bring down the price of sex and set the tone for the market.

      Without women slut shaming their sisters.. (and fighting for equality in divorce laws) marriage is indeed going the way of the dodo, and all the repercussions that come with to the fabric of our society.

  9. #31 by Anonymous on December 14, 2012 - 3:47 PM

    Thanks for the heads up Private Man. My 20 yr old red pill daughter now knows what to watch for.

    • #32 by JulesK on December 24, 2012 - 8:58 PM

      Every girl needs to read that Roosh mini-relationship article. Chilling, relevant. Take heed.

  10. #33 by Anonymous on December 14, 2012 - 4:38 PM

    “It’s always darkest before the dawn.”
    So when it gets really dark you know we stand on the cusp of change.
    There are young women out there who are see what has gone before them and want no part of it. I don’t know if you see it but I do. There is a slow creeping undercurrent of returning to some traditional ideals. Sometimes it not easy to see but it’s there, and it may never look like it did 40 years ago but I guaranty it will not look like it does now. My husband and I deal with the public a lot and one thing we have learned in 25 years of working together is that the children will always want to do it differently then their parents did.

    So please keep pointing the finger of judgement at those women who deserve it but don’t forget to point out and lift up those who are doing it right. They will listen and it will help to drive the change.
    Don’t give up just yet.

    • #34 by Candide on December 14, 2012 - 5:12 PM

      I see a lot of talk on how young women are getting smarter in that regard, but I see absolutely no matching action. They still prioritise education, travels and career before marriage. Do you see young women getting ready for marriage and being dead serious about it between the age 18-21? Thought so. Hell, it’s plainly obvious to every man that young women in their late teens and 20s are far more serious about fiddling on iphones and attention whoring on Facebook than looking for a husband.

      But if you ask them, they’d say “oh sure I love getting married and having a family some day, maybe when I’m 28″ lol.

      Besides, returning to traditional ideals with all these anti-male modern laws is a much worse deal for men. No thanks.

      • #35 by Sparrow on December 17, 2012 - 9:43 AM

        I was serious about dating for marriage at 20. Hasn’t worked out yet.
        So I’m getting a masters because I don’t expect to get married. Would like to, but I can’t predict the future.

      • #36 by deti on December 17, 2012 - 10:00 AM

        Sorry to hear that, Sparrow. If you keep at it and you really want to get married, you’ll find a decent greater beta, depending on your looks. Keep your hair long, your weight down and your makeup on. Don’t give it up to players and cads.

      • #37 by deti on December 17, 2012 - 10:03 AM

        Sparrow:

        –don’t waste your money on travel, clothes, shoes, and designer handbags.
        –get off Facebook if you’re on it.
        –look for reasons to accept men. Find good things about men you see around you.
        –if you’re serious about finding a husband, don’t waste time on bar scenes or online dating
        –a master’s degree will do absolutely nothing to help you find a husband or raise your MMV.

    • #38 by infowarrior1 on December 15, 2012 - 6:17 PM

      @Anon

      We ain’t ever gonna get back to marriage even with traditional ideals if the anti-male laws are still in place that she is able to pull the plug at any time by the power of the law. Then really traditional ideals is just a return to the plantation a more well decorated one at that.

  11. #39 by Laguna Beach Fogey on December 16, 2012 - 3:09 PM

    “A middle-aged guy with confidence, competence, Charisma, and leadership can also play the mini-relationship game. I personally know several gray-haired lotharios doing precisely that, usually with younger women.”

    I see it all the time in the bars and restaurants here in OC.

    Older guys in stripey shirts, denim, and suede driving shoes, with a large house in Laguna Beach or Newport Beach, a Maserati or Ferrari out front, and (of course) enormous income. And yes, they’re usually with younger women, and if not, drop-dead gorgeous older ladies.

    I never expected to be like these guys, but it looks as if that’s the way things are going.

    It’s not a bad way to spend one’s twilight years.

  12. #40 by Hamster Tamer on December 16, 2012 - 10:47 PM

    Older guys in stripey shirts, denim, and suede driving shoes…

    I resemble that remark… minus the big house and Ferrari, lulz.
    Minor quibble: “gray-haired lotharios” should be: SILVER-haired Lotharios… oh yeah. ;^)

    MAJOR undertaking (USA): REPEAL the 19th Amendment! How many supposedly red-pill women will join me @ RepealThe19th.org?? I know Ann Coulter is on board; she’s already said she’ll “take one for the team”.

  13. #41 by Sparrow on December 17, 2012 - 12:01 PM

    @Deti

    – Right now, I’m spending money on clothes because first, I’m transitioning from college to the working world, and secondly, because I just halved my dress size and things don’t fit the way they used to. Handbags and shoes? Meh.
    – Little confused about your issue with facebook. Why is facebook so problematic?
    – Liking men isn’t the problem. Invisibility is. At best, I’m cute.
    – While I’m not a barfly, what’s the issue with guys online?
    – The MS degree is because I’ve had no luck getting the MRS degree.

    • #42 by Candide on December 17, 2012 - 6:46 PM

      The “just halved my dress size” plus your previous comment:

      “I was serious about dating for marriage at 20. Hasn’t worked out yet.
      So I’m getting a masters because I don’t expect to get married. Would like to, but I can’t predict the future.”

      So you got really fat in college, which is why being serious about dating for marriage didn’t get you anywhere.

      You better hope your MS degree isn’t going to add a lot of debts to your name. Cos that won’t help you get a husband any time soon.

      • #43 by Sparrow on December 17, 2012 - 6:50 PM

        I went from a size eight to a size four.

      • #44 by Candide on December 17, 2012 - 8:32 PM

        That’s a size 12 down to 8 equivalent in my country. If you’re average height, yes you were fat. Not scaring small children fat, but enough to hurt your SMV and MMV a lot, especially if you’re not otherwise blessed with a beautiful face and you were at an age where you were supposed at your prime beauty.

        Congrats on losing the weight.

  14. #45 by Brad Smith on December 17, 2012 - 1:16 PM

    “A middle-aged guy with confidence, competence, Charisma, and leadership can also play the mini-relationship game……………

    Why is age such an issue these days? If you are an older guy and have the bottle to go for younger women – then good luck to you. Life is short – so make the most of it.

  15. #46 by me on December 17, 2012 - 6:10 PM

    @sparrow
    Little confused about your issue with facebook. Why is facebook so problematic?

    -attention whoring
    -creeping
    -its where most affairs begin
    -attention whoring
    -photos of round the world travel trips means…translation: surfer dude in bali & 3 some in rio)
    – Oh did i mention attention whoring and constant status updates?

    • #47 by theprivateman on December 17, 2012 - 6:14 PM

      You gotta work on your spelling… I had to fix your comment.

  16. #48 by MaMu1977 on December 18, 2012 - 6:46 PM

    The biggest reason for marriage avoidance is simple: child support is serial, alimony is parallel.

    For most states, CS is imputed for a maximum amount of your check. AFAIK, the highest percent of your check that can be varnished for CS is 35% for 3 or more children in America (Rhode Island, IIRC.) By this rubric, an unmarried man can create 5 children with 3 women (or more) and lose 35% of his base pay in total. Desmond Crockett, the Tennessee resident who created over 30 children with 20+ women, pays about $2.50/child in CS.

    For all states, Almony is paid per wife. If you get married once, that’s 15% of your check gone. Get married twice, that’s 25% (12.5*2) of your check gone. Get married three times, that’s 40% gone (13.3*3). IIRC, only the military lowers alimony payouts for subsequent wives (as in, new wives receive alimony based on his pay post-alimony costs. Wife 1 gets 15% of 3000, Wife 2 gets 15% of 2550, Wife 3 gets 15% of 2250…)

    For more and more men, the sensible thing to do is obvious: have the kids, dump the woman. No wedding and no cohabitation equals no alimony, plus no marriage equals limited ability to claim abuse as a factor in limiting access to children. Part of the “sacrament” of marriage entails the idea that women would only break up marriages for abuse, and that they’ll do *anything and everything* to stay married. Therefore, when a woman claims any form of marital abuse, “Would someone please think of the *children*!?”, becomes a rallying cry. However, when CS time appears in a relationship, even a shitty lawyer can reply with, “She had no legal, moral or financial bond with him, seeing as how she had her own dwelling when they were together, yet she’s trying to claim abuse *now*, after making X# of kids with him? He was good enough when he could see their children for free, he must be good enough now that money is being taken from his pockets.” Lack of access to children for divorced fathers is endemic, access to children of FWB fathers is so common that single mothers are now complaining that their futures are being short-cur hired due to “Stay in Place” rules (IOW, they wanted kids with the hot guy *and* to be able to move to Portland. Too bad, because part-time Daddy didn’t have the access that hubby had, so accounts must be made even…)

    • #49 by MaMu1977 on December 18, 2012 - 7:08 PM

      For divorced men, they have to deal with child-parent cohabitation time as well. As long as a child is living in a home that is paid for with his money, it counts as “Daddy time” (even if Daddy works 12 hour days, 6 days a week.) So when mommy decides to put the kids in the back of a bus and move from Nashville to Tampa, Daddy’s time acts as a deterrent to maintaining custody (“After all, he *had* more than a decade with each one!) However, with FWB/sperm donor Daddy, he has a backlog of “Daddy time” that has to be met. Married Daddy received “daddy credits for the 15hr/day, ten year slog, FWB Daddy got credit for the 3-day weekends and scattered Sundays. If women are supposed to be equal to men, then *men* should do their share!

      If there was ever a better refutation to feminist logic, this is it. Our feminism-influenced courts have created a landscape in which attentive and now divorced fathers may receive as little as 100 hours of time a year with their children, but Fuckbuddy RockbandDrummer (who often didn’t even *know* that he had a child out there until Former Groupie Girl received a pay cut) is now *mandated* to “man up” and devote two weekends a month and an entire summer to a virtual stranger, even if he has a veritable panoply of disorders. Yay?

  17. #50 by Halfbreed on December 18, 2012 - 9:20 PM

    I used to practice monogamy. Then, I took the Red Pill.

    Now, once the seduction phase is over, I focus on harem management.

    Both soft and royal harems are fluid and temporary. The women can and do leave whenever they want. When they do leave, I just find another one to replenish the harem.

    Why would I ever change this situation? Why sacrifice myself for a monogamous relationship? No, thank you.

    I am entering the prime of my life. I plan to take full advantage of the bounty of hot young slut offered up to me by Feminism.

    As time goes on, more and more attractive women will endure harem membership.

    Harem or beta. Take your pick, ladies.

  18. #51 by JulesK on December 25, 2012 - 7:32 PM

    I do think more women are going to figure it out – they already are. Then, they’ll teach their daughters. I think both sexes have learned to be pretty unreasonable about expectations, and we’re all too easily annoyed by others. We expect soooooo much from another person. And, as noted, too many girls are slinging their pussy around. I’m glad we don’t stone women for that, but with the rare exception who is truly able to view sex as just sex, casual relationships are very damaging for women. I’m less concerned about its effect on the “market”, although I don’t disagree that it has one. My view is that men who have a compulsion to go pussy crazy on the “carousel” lack character/are damaged anyway (much like the women on this “carousel”), so in a way, it’s good that there is an outlet for them to readily show their true character.

    I’m far more concerned about the damage I’ve seen done to men in divorces. A family friend of ours married a real bitch. God, she was horrible. Even as a little girl, I hated her the first time I met her. Our friend Tom was this jovial, great guy, and I have no doubt he could have had his pick. But somehow he ended up with her. In the end she left him destitute and took their daughters to the other side of the country. I’m not even sure he got any visitation, and if he did, she was busily filling their minds with poison in the meantime. This is a real, valid reason for men to be afraid of marriage – that said, if he’d got a great lawyer, I think, no, I know this wouldn’t have been nearly as tragic as it was (I’ve seen a few of these). Now, with women earning more, it’s even becoming a concern for us. I think it’s smart for both men and women to marry someone with a similar income level, which generally falls in line with finding someone who is a near equal in most ways – and a lot of the top tier guys do just that. The woman may take some time off in the first few years to raise small children, but then usually gets back into the workforce in some way. In general, divorce law has favored women heavily – at least in our lifetimes. Certainly not historically, though. Women had few property rights in general. But divorce law also simply favors someone who has a much lower income, or no income… It was a swing of the pendulum in reaction to a bunch of assholes running off with their secretaries after their wives *had* supported them in their careers and raised children. These women never went to college, so they didn’t have marketable skills. They did everything that some men here ask… which really, is a *huge* leap of faith on a woman’s part. Not developing marketable skills (and maintaining them) makes you incredibly vulnerable. It makes your kids vulnerable too, if he leaves while they’re still young. So, women who make this leap of faith are betting that their guy is the real deal. I am talking about those women who make it so that their husband can get through medical school with all of the details of daily life “taken care of”, and build a practice. But back to what’s happening now – it’s clearly not quite the right tool for the job. Now good guys are getting burned, hard. Someday, this woman’s daughters are going to really hate her, when they realize what happened.

    I’m all about the first mate arrangement – a first mate is someone very capable, someone who can absolutely run things if the captain isn’t around. A first mate is certainly not a helpless flower who can’t figure out how to get something done. Any captain worth his sea salt chooses his first mate wisely, and so he knows this is someone worth listening to and consulting with. But the first mate will happily follow a good captain’s lead. Much easier! But I saw one guy wants to repeal the 19th amendment, for instance. Maybe he was kidding? I surely don’t want to go back to being something very close to chattel. If a woman was widowed in those days, there was almost no way for her to get a decent job, even if she miraculously had some skills (which mostly, she was heavily discouraged from learning). She would be utterly dependent on charity for the rest of her life. And that was by design. There was plenty of sex slavery too… and women were rightly scared of it (this is also true in many countries today). I think if we went back to that, women would truly know the meaning of desperation – we *would* be in a panic if we couldn’t marry, because it would mean we couldn’t provide for our own material needs. You’d see lots more arranged marriages between disgusting old men and 20-somethings… or even younger. More women in the sex trade. Yikes. No thanks on that one.

  19. #52 by JulesK on December 25, 2012 - 7:35 PM

    Oh, and first mate is especially important for kids – parents should always present a united front (even if they might discuss things when the kids aren’t around – not when they’re still in earshot, but when they’re actually not around)!

  20. #53 by Hamster Tamer on December 27, 2012 - 2:16 AM

    But I saw one guy wants to repeal the 19th amendment, for instance. Maybe he was kidding?…

    Not at all. I’ve examined the data, plotted the trendlines, and concluded that Western Civ. (or indeed ANY civilization, even agrarian) can NOT survive females having the franchise. IIRC, TPM has stated essentially the same thing in this here blog o’ his. The wimminz will vote for the feel-good impossible, right up until the disastrously inevitable smacks us all upside the head.

    The Ancient Romans were the highest I.Q. beings to ever trod this globe. They had some rather pithy and TIMELESS observations on the matter of wimminz and government. And Rome was the biggest most well-managed show in town for, what, 11+ centuries? Do you think human nature has changed one iota since then? Do you think anything resembling the current USA will prosper, or even survive, for 500 years, let alone 1,000?

    And yet women were quite well off in the Roman territories, NOT chattel at all… incl. divorce, inheritance, etc., could own businesses, own ships, own slaves, be sluts, ride the carousel, get their huge nipples pierced, pretty much do everything except vote, hold public office… or be a reduced-capability affirmative-action “soldier” in the Legions. [roll]

  1. Dating 2.0 – Good News & Bad News For Women « PUA Central

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