Online Dating, Additional Advice For Men

Last year I described my online dating system (link below). I still dabble with online dating but mix that up with being social out there in the real world. I’ve been talking to – and corresponding with – a variety of dating coaches and people doing online dating themselves. Based on the additional wisdom I’ve acquired, I have some additional advice for men over 40 who are attempting online dating. Note: My advice is based on a large metropolitan area.

1. Women surf photos just as much as guys do. If she can’t get past your profile photos, you’re done. Don’t take it personally and move on.

2. Make the effort. Online dating is time-consuming. If you’re sending out just one message, you will fail. Unless you’re really good-looking, your response will rarely be over 10%. Deal with it. So, reserve some time in front of the computer to find at least

3. Send multiple messages. Each message should be different. I covered this previously (link below)

4. Be organized, use a spreadsheet. Here’s a recommendation for columns: User Name, When Message Sent, Message Read Status, If Message Read, When?, If Responded, When?, Notes. Add additional columns as you feel necessary. Plenty of Fish and OKCupid won’t give you the message read status for free. Pay for that feature, it’s worth it.

5. Grow your skin thicker and be realistic. Online dating can be brutal on the psyche. Women look for reasons to reject a guy and that’s a feature, not a bug. As well, women have enormous egos and their abilities to rationalize are nuclear powered. Fortunately, the professional dating coaches are working to correct this (link below).

6. Don’t expect immediate responses. Women over a certain age will fill every single waking moment with something and usually not logging into their computers to actually be serious about online dating. Most consider online dating as a tertiary priority, right after cleaning the litter box.

7. Don’t send immediate responses. You’re a busy guy, give that message by delaying responses. Men should play games like this and it sucks.

8. Because most women don’t take online dating seriously, don’t expect pithy profiles. If you weed out the sparsely written profiles, you’re going to be eliminating too many dames before you even start sending out messages.

9. Don’t rely solely on online dating. If you’re not being social in real life – even if not to meet women – your social skills will get rusty and your real dates will suffer accordingly.

10. Try to keep as local as possible. If your city has sufficient population density, you can keep your search to under 10 miles. Too much distance is a time killer (except if the date is near your job) and a poor return on investment if you are looking for more than just sex.

11. Follow directions. If the woman’s profile states an age range and you don’t fall into it, don’t message her. The same goes for everything else – distance, baldness, height, etc. As we say about women, the same applies to men. In cyberspace, we’re not special snowflakes. (HT, Moxie, link below)

12. Always remember that men are the gatekeepers to commitment.

Online Dating, A Short Primer

The Best Dating Advice Women Will Ever Get

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  1. #1 by Isaac Jordan on October 29, 2012 - 12:10 PM

    Solid advice Private Man. Thanks for going into so much detail. The tip about paying for read message updates seems like a great idea.

    Here’s a question for you: what are your thoughts on online dating for short guys?

    I live in a big city, but my work in agriculture often has me traveling weeks at a time to rural towns across the southeast. Most nights I end up in a hotel room in the middle of nowhere with plenty of time on my hands, and I figure it might be worth giving online dating a shot. Only thing is, I’m 5’6″ and I assume most women on these sites will either filter me out or reject me for taller options.

    My other stats are solid: I’m 23, in great shape, making $60k a year. I’m social, have interesting hobbies, and thanks to discovering the ‘sphere two years ago I’ve gotten some good game experience under my belt. Do you think this is worth a shot, or should I just work on other projects while I travel and continue to game in person when I’m home? Any other thoughts on short guy online game?

    • #2 by theprivateman on October 29, 2012 - 12:18 PM

      I have bad news. It’s extraordinarily difficult for short guys with online dating. You can lie about your height in your profile but only by an inch (buy some boots with thick heels). But even 5’7″ is below a girl’s usual requirement. Sure, they’ll talk a good game about dating guys of any height, but as soon as she sees your height on your profile, you’re likely done. Yeah, there might be some exceptions but your return on investment won’t make it worthwhile.

      You’ll need real life Charisma and shitloads of it. Your job makes this difficult, I know. Hmmmm, the rural Southeast… tough nut to crack. I wish I could be more helpful.

      • #3 by Isaac Jordan on October 29, 2012 - 2:00 PM

        Thanks for the quick reply.

        I figured that would be the case. I may give it a shot anyway (nothing to lose, right?), and try seeing if there are any decent girls in some of the smaller towns I frequent. Perhaps swimming in smaller ponds will make me seem like a bigger fish.

        P.S. Boots are a great call. I went to school in Texas, and it’s awesome having an excuse to always rock the man heels. I don’t often get approached, but when I do it’s almost always because they want to check out my lizard skins.

      • #4 by theprivateman on October 29, 2012 - 2:14 PM

        Those boots will serve two purposes, giving you a small lift and drawing attention to yourself. Also, consider wearing some type of brimmed hat like a fedora. Keep it clean and blocked (hat term) properly. The hat will also give you a taller appearance and makes for a good reason for girls to approach you.

        If you’re going to go for online dating in the smaller towns, play up your worldly sophistication (or, just make it up). Small town girls are just itchin’ to get out and a big city feller with some smarts, a good job, and cash money will be seen as a ticket out of boring smallville. Warning, these are just the type of girls to drop an “oops” pregnancy on you. Consider yourself warned.

        Keep us posted on your progress.

      • #5 by Cail Corishev on October 29, 2012 - 2:53 PM

        I once met a woman online who was the same height as me, according to our profiles. Things got intense enough online and over the phone that when she came over, we pretty much fell into bed. But the whole time, she was freaking out because it turned out I was shorter than her. It was maybe half an inch, partly because I met her at the door barefoot (I was really pushing the whole “aloof and uncaring” angle back then), and I think partly because she had rounded down.

        So yeah, they really pay attention to height, and most think they have to have a taller man, so they’ll filter for that online, even though a shorter guy might make them tingle all over if he got a chance.

      • #6 by LostSailor on October 30, 2012 - 12:12 PM

        Completely agree on the boots. I have only one pair of dress shoes but 4 pairs of boots. The burgundy colored python skin boots get the most attention, and look great with jeans or a suit. Been wearing them pretty consistently since high school. I’m 5’9″, so I’m not really wearing them for the height advantage, though of course it doesn’t hurt, but because they’re damn comfortable.

        As with most things involved with Charisma, do it for yourself first, and let the benefits with the ladies follow.

        Good luck trolling the farmlands, Isaac…

    • #7 by Wald on October 29, 2012 - 5:31 PM

      Try to find short girls who are 5’0″-5’4″ – to them you’ll seem tall, but not too tall.

      I’m 5’7″ myself, and have met up with around 3 girls since joining POF in August. I fucked one last week (she’s 5’0″ latina).

      It’s not impossible – just takes more time and patience. Look for Au Pairs if possible, I think they’ll overlook height if you’re interesting.

      I’m based in D.C. – but go to university near Lexington and am unable to leave much. This makes logistics terrible and has cost me I’m sure.

      Keep working at it.

    • #8 by Infantry on October 30, 2012 - 6:35 AM

      Its not all doom and gloom. Photos are still greater than all. Yes some girls will be searching by height, but in the majority of cases, you will be the one ‘approaching’ so its irrelevant.

      Honestly if your photos are good I’d approach all girls up to and including your boosted height (5’7). Higher than that… well if your photos are good and she seems to match you you’ve got nothing to lose.

    • #9 by Richard Cranium on October 30, 2012 - 11:16 AM

      I feel your pain brother my height and slim build (5’5″ 120 pounds) has made me all but give up on dating period. I tried online dating in the past and the .001% success ratio convinced me to give it for good.

      Women do judge you on your height so unless you have super-human game, deep pockets and model looks it’s gonna be a tough road online.

      I disagree with what was said about looking for shorter girls they seem to be the most demanding about the height requirements in my experience. Just something weird and somewhat unnerving about a 5’1″ girl demanding a 6 footer.

  2. #10 by someguy302004 on October 29, 2012 - 6:42 PM

    Great advice, PM.

    Today I got the funniest response from a message (within minutes of sending it)

    “Lame message. Ugly pic. Bad profile.”

    I just replied “so, why did you respond? Are you always this full of shit?”

    Hilarious. It’s why I keep online girls to less than half of the total of my social circle, nighttime, and daytime-met finds.

    • #11 by In The Frigid North on October 29, 2012 - 8:20 PM

      First ever message received when I tried OKCupid:
      “You seem arrogant”
      I responded saying that I don’t believe in bragging on the internet and treating it as a joke.
      Her next message assured me that she was very serious and that arrogance is not an attractive quality.

      Other sites have been better supplements to real life.

    • #12 by Infantry on October 30, 2012 - 6:36 AM

      Some girls are willing to be very hurtful when there’s no ramifications (social or otherwise) to their actions. Honestly its best to consider it as a bullet dodged.

    • #13 by Mark on October 30, 2012 - 12:11 PM

      I would just give a little bit of a warning to all the guys doing this online dating. Because so many guys are doing the thing where they send out dozens of emails, even an average female is being flooded with emails and it’s causing rampant female ego inflation on these sites and causing them to turn down a lot of the guys with the same or even higher dating market value. I think this may be causing some guys to lower their standards too much just so they can get someone to meet them. Sometimes it’s better to just walk away when all the women available are low quality. You shouldn’t be willing to just date anyone. Sometimes the women around you will be of such low quality that having them in your life will make your life worse, not better. I say that as an old guy who’s been through a lot of relationships. So look at the women on these sites with a critical eye and don’t pursue them unless you think they will really add value to your life.

  3. #14 by M3 on October 29, 2012 - 7:59 PM

    I’ve had girls 5’7 to 5’8 kibosh me (5’10 1/2″) because i was too short for them to wear 4″ inch heels in and still feel ‘girly’.

    I live in a city of f*cking giraffes.

    • #15 by someguy302004 on October 29, 2012 - 8:18 PM

      M3, where do you live? NYC?

      • #16 by M3 on October 30, 2012 - 8:14 AM

        Thankfully no, i live in NYC lite. Toronto. Canada.

    • #17 by In The Frigid North on October 29, 2012 - 8:22 PM

      On one hand, I’m fortunate enough to be 6’2″
      On the other, I live in the upper Midwest, so a lot of the lovely ladies are up to 5’11” and edge me out when they are wearing heels (and the chub rate is probably a bit higher than the coasts, ah, Scandinavian stock).

    • #18 by Infantry on October 30, 2012 - 6:41 AM

      On the face of it, this ‘needs to be taller than me while I’m wearing heels’ dealbreaker is one of the most selfish entitled things that any girl could have on her checklist for men.

      But to be frank, they do it because they can. If girls weren’t getting enough attention/sex, their standards would fall pretty quickly to something more reasonable. I hear in Eastern Europe (hattip: Roosh) there’s plenty of schlubs with tall modelesque girlfriends.

      As usual, the tide turns as they get older. Guys with options can also be picky, but they need to have the options first.

      • #19 by Fi on October 30, 2012 - 7:58 AM

        Yep. How dare women have any attractiveness criteria or standards if a man wants to have sex with us. That just shows how selfish we are. :lol:

      • #20 by theprivateman on October 30, 2012 - 10:50 AM

        It’s not the attraction preferences, we all have those and that’s why I have “Follow directions” on my list in that post. The problem arises when women actively look for reasons to reject a guy. If a woman looks for reasons to reject a man, find will inevitably find those reasons. Then comes the caterwauling of “where are all the good men?!” Hand to forehead, swiftly.

      • #21 by Richard Cranium on October 30, 2012 - 9:12 PM

        Fi the difference is that a lot of women won’t even entertain the thought of talking to a guy unless he met her 100 point checklist and no one says anything but if a guy dared put in his profile “Don’t contact me unless you’re a blond between 25-30 with a C cup and under 120 pounds” he’d be crucified.

      • #22 by Infantry on October 30, 2012 - 11:30 PM

        He would be crucified, but if a guy did it, he could probably afford to get away with that. I remember Roosh had a meetup recently in DC and he pretty much said for girls who weren’t above a certain level of prettiness to not even bother. He’s very anti-‘girls being lazy about their appearances’. This is the guy who made the Fat Girl Jihad website though :)

        Honestly, at the end of the day there’s no point whinging about people having too high standards. The free market sets the price. Energy spent trying to regulate the local SMP is better spent either improving your own attractiveness or moving to another market where you can get a better deal.

        This is why game/MGTOW etc work on an individual level. No man can change what women find attractive, just as all the feminist rage in the world won’t stop men from being attracted to young beautiful women.

  4. #23 by Leap of a Beta on October 29, 2012 - 11:10 PM

    I’m 5’9.5″ and still get screwed on the height thing. So far im finding something I read of 27 year olds being the most desired by young looking for older and older looking for younger to be full of shit.

    Except single mothers. Both offline and on I have a slew of single mothers im beating off with a stick. Screw that. Im way too young to put up with some little runt

  5. #24 by C.X.Love on October 30, 2012 - 1:23 AM

    OMG, I cannot stand online dating!

    • #25 by theprivateman on October 30, 2012 - 11:00 AM

      You, in particular, don’t need to.

      • #26 by C.X.Love on October 30, 2012 - 12:26 PM

        What does that mean?

      • #27 by theprivateman on October 30, 2012 - 2:03 PM

        It means you’re young, fit, and attractive so you can find men easily just while out and about in the real world.

  6. #28 by In The Frigid North on October 30, 2012 - 6:10 PM

    You sure about #11?
    I’ve stuck to it in the past, but now in my most recent go online, I’ve had younger girls message me despite being above their profile listed age preference; this must also mean that their search parameters are broader than their profile parameters, or their other interactions informed the recommendation engine that I’d have a shot. One anecdote, but perhaps slight deviation from a girl’s rules isn’t 100% going to be wasted effort.

    I’m in my early 30s, so not old enough to really be out of anyone’s range, and the girls were 23-26, if that helps you know where barriers might be blurred a bit.

  7. #29 by someguy302004 on October 30, 2012 - 7:03 PM

    Also, I’ve found that showing skin works for me. I used the shirtless mirror photo for a while, and now I have an outdoors angry loner pose in a wife beater that works well. (Other than the occasional angry female- see my previous comment)!

  8. #30 by AnonymousDog on October 31, 2012 - 10:44 AM

    Personally, I’ve found that regularly running posts on Craigslist, specifying pretty much exactly what I’m looking for, and then filtering out the bots, scammers, massage girl/hookers, and gay guys who make up 95% of the replies, requires no more work than sending messages to women and constantly tweaking my profile on “Dating Sites”. The genuine women who answer my CL ads are a lot more serious about it than any I’ve messaged on ‘Dating Sites’, and are no more likely to be fat, ugly, crazy, or desperate. Just my experience, for what it’s worth.

  9. #31 by Titanium on November 3, 2012 - 12:13 PM

    Isaac, your chances are better with shorter women but even they want tall guys, presumably because they don’t want their offspring to also be short.

    Why does knowing whether she read the message matter? I just send it and forget it, as most won’t reply. What is everyone’s response rate to initial cold messages sent?

  10. #32 by Joshua Pompey on November 3, 2012 - 5:14 PM

    This is a nice solid list. I especially agree with sending a lot of messages while making them all unique. Women definitely don’t respond to emails that they think have been spammed out to many other women. At the same time, online dating is in essence a numbers game to an extent since there is so much competition for pretty women. Nice work I enjoyed this blog entry and look forward to reading more posts.

  11. #33 by be2 dating on November 27, 2012 - 1:59 AM

    This list is great. I agree that online dating is time consuming and you should be well prepared to know exactly how to succeed.

    The most important thing in online dating is your profile and, of course, the first message you send.

  12. #34 by Niklas Kattilakoski on December 19, 2012 - 1:54 AM

    I am agree to all those tips.Specially making an effort.Many of us are really not into online dating which sometimes we are getting bored on looking for a partner.But in Finland country there are many of men are making effort to find their match which most of them successfully find it through chatting.

  13. #35 by Erica Richard on February 1, 2013 - 9:10 AM

    Personally I can’t stand men who look desperate and are too pushy. They really make me think they have no healthy personal life. I like men who lead active life and use online dating just as another option.
    One guy i met on eDesirs even started sending me angry emails just because I didn’t answer his initial mail. That’s ridiculous, isn’t it?

  14. #36 by Steve on March 25, 2013 - 6:19 AM

    I gotta better idea… how about we men (and I mean all men, even those who have considerable pull) go on a dating strike until the women smarten up? Most of them are narcissistic, entitled skanks. In our fathers’ and grandfathers’ day, their behavior wouldn’t have passed muster, so why are we letting it pass today?

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