An Ugly Social Expectation And More On Female Projection

This subject has been covered in other blogs but is so important that it needs a constant refrain throughout the Manosphere and hopefully, well beyond.

Badger had an excellent blog post, “It’s OK To Please Your Man” and repeats one of his quotes from a comment he made Athol Kay’s post, “Cooking As Girl Game“. Badger said this:

We live in a very strange world where a wife enjoying taking care of her man is a shameful secret. This “don’t take any shit from a man” philosophy we’ve pumped into women the last 20 years is without a doubt a major factor in ruining countless relationships.

“Don’t take shit from a man” is code for “men are worthless and not worthy of respect”.

This is a horrible, wretched, and culture-destroying social expectation. This is man-hating at its worst. It goes way beyond bigotry and might even be considered a foreshadowing to gender-based genocide. Women who follow this social expectation are dangerous killers of culture and civilization. Any woman who verbalizes this sentiment must be called out with this question: “Why do you want to destroy our society and civilization?”

Pulling back from this dangerous notion is the idea that women project their attraction to a type of man – the strong and independent alpha variety – onto men. Hence, women must be strong and independent. Badger makes another great point:

I would wager that whoever’s been giving this advice has been projecting big-time. Just because women often lose attraction for a guy who admits weakness and bends over backwards to do everything his woman says she wants (regular readers understand this is usually because he replaces his alpha traits with beta ones), it doesn’t mean a man will lose his jones for a woman who is “girly” or “makes it too easy” by giving him good care.

This. 100%

This type projection, bitchiness, entitlement, lack of restraint, and failure to respect men has utterly ruined countless relationships. It’s amazing that relationship advice outside of the Manosphere continues to reinforce horrible attitudes toward men. It’s laughable to see all the hand-wringing by mainstream media pundits when they comment on the terrible state of dating, relationships, and marriage. The answer is in the Manosphere if those pundits we’re so terrified to read and accept it. But is indeed heartening to see how Game as a social meme is spreading nicely.

In one of the many comments to the Badger post, our man detinennui32 came up with a great list of 10 commandments for both men and women.

Commandments for Women:
1. Thou shalt cultivate a feminine demeanor and bearing. Thou shalt not try to be, look like, or act like a man. Thou shalt observe and obey this Commandment above all others.
2. Thou shalt not use profanity or other coarse language in public.
3. Thou shalt let the man decide where you will go and what you will do on the first few dates.
4. Thou shalt not denigrate thy man in public. Ever.
5. Thou shalt not denigrate or otherwise break bad on thy man to his parents, thy parents, thy coworkers or thy BFFs. Ever.
6. Thou shalt do some things your man likes to do, such as make his favorite foods, do your hair the way he likes, or wear some clothes he likes.
7. Thou shalt not let thyself go. Thou shalt give reasonable care and attention to cultivate a pleasing personal appearance.
8. Thou shalt not try to lead or overrule thy man.
9. Thou shalt let thy man reciprocate thy kindness.
10. Thou shalt not act like a princess.

Commandments for Men:
1. Thou shalt devise and implement a life plan, consisting of career path, interests, hobbies and desires; and thou shalt work on and revise said plan as appropriate. Thou shalt observe and obey this Commandment above all others.
2. Thou shalt learn to be observant of the people and situations around thee. Thou shalt cultivate a thorough understanding of thine own nature and that of the female gender. Said understanding shalt be premised upon established concepts of evolutionary biology, evolutionary psychology and game; not upon political correctness, feminism, or artificial social constructs.
3. Thou shalt approach and pursue what thy will, within the bounds of legal, moral, and reasonable social constraints. Thou shalt not apologize for approaching an attractive woman.
4. Thou shalt not be a pussy. Thou shalt walk away and forget it when there is no attraction, she is not interested, or it’s not working. Thou shalt suck it up and move on. Thou shalt not view female rejection as an assessment of thy self-worth.
5. Thou shalt not force intimacy without first establishing attraction.
6. Thou shalt not derive thy self-worth from a woman’s opinion of thee.
7. Thou shalt not place her on a pedestal. Ever.
8. Thou shalt demonstrate leadership and decisiveness in thy plan and relationships. Thou shalt make and keep dates with thy woman, and thou shalt decide where thee will go and what thee will do on said dates.
9. Thou shalt learn to tell thy woman “no” when necessary.
10. Thou shalt not seek, accept, or implement dating or male-female advice from thy female relatives or friends.

These two lists should be copied and pasted as a comment to any of those terrified pundits when a story or article on relationships is published on the web. I can see the dames over at TheFrisky.com going nicely apeshit.

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  1. #1 by detinennui32 on June 6, 2011 - 12:47 PM

    “Be strong. Be independent. Don’t take shit from a man.”
    “You’re young. Have your fun.”
    “Anything a man can do, you can do better.”
    “I don’t need a man to be happy!”

    Fifteen years later:

    “Why hasn’t he called me? It’s been only 12 hours and we just had sex for the first time last night. It was our third date. He’s so hot!”
    “Where are all the good men?”
    “I just want a nice guy who will treat me right!”
    “I’m so unhappy, lonely, and empty. I need a husband and children!”

  2. #2 by Badger on June 6, 2011 - 1:01 PM

    Thanks for the pingback. Truly a toxic thought pattern.

  3. #3 by detinennui32 on June 6, 2011 - 1:12 PM

    Another thing: male-female relationships and marriages are the basic building blocks of Western society. The attitudes set out in PM”s post are destructive of male-female relationships, leading to fewer marriages and more divorces. This leads to increasing isolation and of course to fewer births. Our society is increasingly disconnected and atomized. A lot of the blame for this can be laid at feminism’s feet.

    This is a society and culture in which men are considered worthless layabouts. Or if dad is still at home, he’s dumb and clueless, and mom has to make all the sound decisions and “save the day”. Many women fill their heads with trash culture (Oprah, soap operas and Lifetime “emotional porn”, Real Housewives, Kardashians, etc.)

    Many individuals in this society feel and sense no responsibility or accountability to family, neighbors, employers, civic authorities, cities, or country. Why should men invest time, money and resources in women who project such attitudes? Little wonder that many men simply get out of dating altogether. I don’t endorse all aspects of the PUA lifestyle but I certainly understand it.

    Every unmarried man should silently ask himself why he should invest time, money and resources into any woman he meets. He should keep his investment at an absolute minimum until the woman proves her worthiness.

    So ladies, it’s up to you. Answer this: Why should we invest in you? What’s in it for us? What do you have to offer us?

  4. #4 by Langobard on June 6, 2011 - 2:11 PM

    Every unmarried man should silently ask himself why he should invest time, money and resources into any woman he meets. He should keep his investment at an absolute minimum until the woman proves her worthiness.

    Excellent point.

    I always get a huge kick out of a large majority of women, especially online commentators – ‘conservative’ and feminist alike – who *insist*, for example, that men should always, always (and did I mention always) pay! pay! pay! for every interaction the man has with a woman, even if they are not a couple or even on an official date.

    This certainly is one thing that unites almost all entitled American women, be they ugly or pretty… fat or thin… Christian conservative or ‘liberated’ libtard alike: that of economically exploiting and often just downright using men.

  5. #5 by Pierce Harlan on June 6, 2011 - 2:17 PM

    As for the woman who brays that other women “shouldn’t take shit from a man” and “you don’t need a man, sister!” — all I can say is this: she doth protest too much. They always sound like they are saying it just so they, themselves, will come to believe it. This, in contrast to a multi-billion dollar wedding industry that dwarfs the sexual grievance industry in its economic importance to America.

    Bray on with your empowering anti-man slogans, women: the vast majority of women ain’t buying it. They’re too busy getting fitted for a wedding gown, after having trapped a hapless boyfriend into proposing.

  6. #6 by Tim on June 6, 2011 - 3:26 PM

    Said understanding shalt be premised upon established concepts of evolutionary biology, evolutionary psychology and game; not upon political correctness, feminism, or artificial social constructs.

    Here here.

  7. #7 by Tim on June 6, 2011 - 3:29 PM

    Correction:

    Hear-hear.

  8. #8 by Tim on June 6, 2011 - 3:33 PM

    I’ll add my own:

    Whenever you hear a woman say the words, ‘disenfranchised’ or ‘heteronormative’, tell her you have to leave and depart immediately. Never call her again. These words are code for, “I have a degree in Sociology”.

    Same goes for other words such as ‘post-colonialism’ and ‘diversity’.

    • #9 by syd on June 13, 2011 - 12:54 PM

      By all means. Never actually listen to what she has to say. That would be like elevating a woman to equal human status.Any woman who uses such big words must be trouble… they might actually want you to reflect or think about something. While we’re at, let’s also take away their right to vote!

      • #10 by theprivateman on June 13, 2011 - 12:59 PM

        Hey look! Strawman argument! Woo hoo! My first!

        Hit the road, sister. This is the Manosphere and your weak skills in logic fail to amuse us.

        For your own education read this web page carefully and enjoy the free lesson in logic and reason.

        http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm

        (Trigger alert for logic and reason)

      • #11 by syd on June 13, 2011 - 1:27 PM

        “Hey look! Strawman argument! Woo hoo! My first!

        Hit the road, sister. This is the Manosphere and your weak skills in logic fail to amuse us.

        For your own education read this web page carefully and enjoy the free lesson in logic and reason.

        http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/toc.htm

        (Trigger alert for logic and reason)”

        Sorry, Private Man, but your argument doesn’t pass the logic test yourself, buddy.

        First, you make an erroneous identification of the logical fallacy I used in the first place. I used Hyperbole, not a Straw Man argument.

        Second, you make a Personal Attack on me by insinuating that there is something inherently flawed in being female that will affect my use and application of logical principles. Attacking the messenger instead of the message isn’t logical.

        Even we feeble-minded women get to learn in dem der skools nowadays.

        (By the way… how logical and fair is it for you to attack me and then not allow a response under your comment? Scared of a little girl?)

      • #12 by theprivateman on June 13, 2011 - 2:48 PM

        Did you even bother to read this? –

        http://onegoodmove.org/fallacy/straw.htm

        The essence of the strawman argument is to use a hyperbolic statement, as you did: “That would be like elevating a woman to equal human status” You call it hyperbole to avoid dealing with your logical own fallacy.

        Insinuated? Damn, I should have been more clear: Because you are a woman you likely lack the appropriate skills in logic and reason to deal with the Manosphere.

        Feel better now? It’s all about the feelings, ain’t it cupcake?

        Scared? That’s a “Charge of Cowardice” (Code Yellow) in the ol’ book of shaming language. The Logic and Reason referee blows the whistle and ejects Syd from the Manosphere arena much to the laughter and high fives amongst the guys.

        The beer is on me, fellas.

      • #13 by syd on June 13, 2011 - 9:24 PM

        Sorry, Private Man.

        I was busy licking my sweet, considerate, generous, open-minded BETA MAN from head to toe. Interacting with you reminded me of damn lucky I am to have a cool, honest, humble guy who is not suffering from testosterone poisoning. Of course, the guys in the MAN-O-FEAR would never accept my physical aggression, but my yummy Beta lets me have my way with him sometimes and seems to really be enjoying all of my attention to every inch of his body. Lucky for me, he is also very, very generous and appreciative, too. Aren’t we pathetic?!?

        You’re right… sometimes it IS all about feelings. And right now, what I’m feeling is pretty damn hot!

        Cheers, indeed!!!

  9. #14 by detinennui32 on June 6, 2011 - 4:19 PM

    Tim: Agreed.

    Again, men should always ask about any wonan he’s interested in: why should I expend resources on you? What’s in it for me?

    Women are the gatekeepers to sex. That’s the one power they have always had in the SMP.
    Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. That’s the one power men have in today’s SMP.

  10. #15 by Bb on June 7, 2011 - 12:41 AM

    I wasn’t on board for Badger’s original post, but I find @detinennui32′s commandments to be absolutely fascinating. I wish I could poll my female friends and see how they fare with these 10.

    In my experience, #4 and #5 are the most widely broken by the majority of my gf’s. It’s poor form to air dirty laundry about your husband to other people, especially if you’re doing it just to complain. Incredibly disrespectful.

    So ladies, it’s up to you. Answer this: Why should we invest in you? What’s in it for us? What do you have to offer us?

    This is a great question to ask, and definitely will help filter for character, if that’s what one is interested in for an LTR.

    What would be good answers to you?

  11. #16 by Badger on June 7, 2011 - 2:08 AM

    “Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. That’s the one power men have in today’s SMP.”

    This is a great point. Because marriage is no longer a social mandate, the male’s “commitment” becomes the agent that can be drawn down to a trickle. Conversely, women today are not collectively capable of a Lysistrata (and probably never were throughout history).

  12. #17 by NMH on June 7, 2011 - 6:25 AM

    The gatekeeper theory is great, but I think it needs a caveat: that you have a high enough SMV where there are individuals that want to have sex or would want to commit to you.

    For example, if you are within a relationship and your gf gets fat, her SMV drops, and the guy would not want to have sex with her–she is no longer a gatekeeper of sex. If a man loses his job, she will no longer want to have a relationship with him, and he is no longer a gatekeeper of that.

    Maintaining a high SMV in a relationship and asking your partner to do the same seems next to impossible, with all the junk food out there and a mancession. It would appear that most relationships are doomed.

    • #18 by Michel on June 7, 2011 - 10:15 AM

      Pity.

  13. #19 by detinennui32 on June 7, 2011 - 1:16 PM

    Badger said:
    “Men are the gatekeepers to commitment. That’s the one power men have in today’s SMP.”

    This is a great point. Because marriage is no longer a social mandate, the male’s “commitment” becomes the agent that can be drawn down to a trickle. Conversely, women today are not collectively capable of a Lysistrata (and probably never were throughout history)”

    Men’s commitment isn’t trickling yet, but it sure is less than it had been even 20 years ago. Anecdotally, of my male college friends, only half of us are married. The other half are divorced or never married, and are very leery of any kind of commitment. Half of us are children of divorce ourselves. Ask them why they aren’t married, it’s “the women don’t want us” or “the hassle isn’t worth it”.

    But like Dalrock, I don’t see a marriage strike happening. And like Brendan, nor do I see a men’s right’s movement catching on as a widespread sociopolitical force. If either did, I suspect things would change in a hurry. But where things are now, what is having the most impact seems to be men “alphaing up” in their lives, their LTRs and their marriages. That’s why I think sites like this, Badger, Dalrock and Athol Kay are doing the Lord’s work. Sure has helped me in just three months’ time.

  14. #20 by detinennui32 on June 7, 2011 - 1:24 PM

    Bb said:

    “So ladies, it’s up to you. Answer this: Why should we invest in you? What’s in it for us? What do you have to offer us?

    This is a great question to ask, and definitely will help filter for character, if that’s what one is interested in for an LTR.

    What would be good answers to you?”

    Here’s what I would like to hear collectively from women:

    We reject feminism in all its forms and permutations.
    We love and respect men for what they do for society, our communities, our families and our children.
    We admire men for the unique things they do for and bring to marriages and extended families.
    We’ll let you be men and not be feminized versions of yourselves.
    We offer our kind words, our fidelity, our commitment, and ourselves.
    When in an LTR or marriage with you, we’ll offer our honest opinions on how best to lead fulfilling, complete and satisfying lives together.

  15. #21 by Bb on June 7, 2011 - 6:03 PM

    “We reject feminism in all its forms and permutations.”

    So the term feminism can mean many things to different people…Can you more narrowly define what a rejection of feminism would be in practice? Giving up the right to vote? Feeling okay with pleasing your man? What would this rejection look like for a woman in daily practice?

  16. #22 by detinennui32 on June 8, 2011 - 11:52 AM

    Bb:

    Giving up feminism does not mean no voting for women, limited work opportunities for women or that all women should be shackled to a kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. I don’t advocate that at all.

    Original “feminist” ideas such as equal pay for equal work and women’s suffrage are not up for debate.

    What I mean is rejecting the current strain of feminism which has become misandrist. Rejecting feminism in daily life means a woman makes her choices, accepts its consequences and learns to live with them. No one can have it all. It means rejecting the idea that all men are pigs. It means being OK with pleasing your man. It means doing some things your man likes. It means letting your husband lead the family. It means learning and practicing femininity, humility, demureness, chastity and cheerfulness.

  17. #23 by OffTheCuff on June 8, 2011 - 9:17 PM

    Bb: renounce gender feminism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_and_gender_feminism

    Feminism today is gender feminism, which is really just sexism, pretending to be secular humanism.

  18. #24 by Bb on June 9, 2011 - 1:05 AM

    Thanks guys, very helpful. I gladly renounce gender feminism. Shudder.

  19. #25 by Guavaberry on June 11, 2011 - 12:20 PM

    You know what the problem is?
    I’m a foreign woman currently attending college in USA, I think I could put myself on a very high category of feminity. Modesty aside I’m a very atractive and fit individual, according to my homeland’s customs most of the time I’m perfectly dressed and primped. I am a very cheerful person, an excelent dancer and a good cook. I could be classified as a prude by today’s standards, but I enjoy my sexuality, I don’t mind pleasing my man, in fact, I like it. His family and friends loved me and asked him where did he found such a sweet, smart and beautiful girl. How does he pays? Cheating on me.
    Now the femenist rationalization kicks in, if I did nothing wrong, then, why did this happen?

    • #26 by bbsez on June 12, 2011 - 12:47 PM

      If you read Badger’s post on male attraction and the discussion underneath, it may help. Bottom line I got out of it was:

      - a man will stray, unless he proves otherwise
      - a man’s reason for cheating has nothing to do with how happy he is in a relationship
      - what stops a man from cheating is a high moral compass / good character
      - if your man cheated, he had a bad character

      It has nothing to do with feminism, except that feminism has betrayed you with the assumption that men and women are the same biologically.

    • #27 by bbsez on June 12, 2011 - 4:44 PM

      Sorry I should be more precise:
      – a man’s reason for cheating may not have anything to do with how happy he is in a relationship.

  20. #28 by TheDeSimplifier on June 14, 2011 - 12:02 AM

    Extremes and assumptions of generalities are what lead to wars and genocides. Your absolute commandments do not allow for any flexibility. Are you using hyperbole to emphasize some points, or are you actually serious??

    Some are good, like number 6. No one should derive their self worth from anything external, (except perhaps God, and that is in large part a very internal experience so might not count). External things will invariably let you down. Define yourself always.

    ComMANdments:
    1, 3, 4,5 and 6 all have good points before you go off the rails. 2 starts out well, but the second sentence is illogical. “Game” is about as artificial a social construct as you can get, because it involves not saying or behaving with what is on your mind, but rather acting in a way to try and elicit an (assumed) programmed response. If we were insects with pheromones that overrule anything else our simple ganglia might cook up, this would work. Complicated brains make for complex relationships. No matter how skilled you are at nudging the hind brain that is only a small part of the equation. At best it will give you a slightly better chance. The rest of 2 is too no- specific. “established concepts ” and “feminism” are so subjective and general that you might as well be writing a horoscope.

    7 is ambiguous. “Never is an awfully strong word, but then pedestal might be also. If pedestel means worship, I give it a pass.

    8? Leadership is a good thing, but if you don’t EVER let your wife/gf choose what to do you guarantee that the relationship will have less “in it for you.” Maybe kayaking will turn out to be fun. Maybe that indy band you never heard of before is really good. Sharing their interest is one of things women have to offer us.

    9 works. but like 6 should be generalized. You should tell ANYONE “no” when necessary.

    10. Huh? Why not? Maintain privacy boundaries as a matter of respect for your relationship, but a sister, or mother? Do you fear a conspiracy?

    Women’s commandments: 4 and 5 are generally good advice for any healthy relationship. Take it to your man/woman directly instead of whining behind their back or trying to humiliate them. I am not going to touch most of the 10. This is clearly your personal checklist of the type of woman you will tolerate. Good luck with that.

  21. #29 by Catalina on July 1, 2011 - 12:49 AM

    Ugh….I was all for this post until I saw the 10 commandments….not that I am against what the actual 20 listed commandments are ….but because they were heavily in favour of men and very sexist (and I’m not even one of those femininity-bashing feminists). It seemed like all the commandments for the women were to please the man, while the man’s commandments were about pelasign himself and his ego–so then that begs the question, what’s in it for the woman then? why please a self-absorbed jerk who won’t treat ehr liek a princess? I mean, I don’t know why one of the commandments was to not be a princess….if I’m not allowed to be treated special….then I have no interest in finding a prince, i.e. pleasing a man.

    • #30 by theprivateman on July 1, 2011 - 8:17 AM

      What’s wrong with pleasing a man?

      Those commandments are a very nice counterpoise to the expectations of chivalry (female privilege) and pedestalizing (still more female privilege).

      And what have you done to earn the right to be treated specially? Just being female entitles you to nothing – unless of course you believe not in equality, but female privilege.

  22. #31 by David T on July 2, 2011 - 11:11 PM

    What is wrong with two people mutually pleasing one another without living preconceived assumptions that “All women want this” and “All men want or are like that”. This stuff about “being built into our genes ” is load of horse hockey. Our brains are far more complex and adaptive.

    Have you ever seen something delicious and CHOSEN not to eat it? Did that emasculate you or strip you of your human nature? (And eating is even more fundamental than mating.) Even *if* the underlying assumptions that “men are historically/genetically hunters and providers” were true, this is only a small part of what makes us tick.

    I can be nice to a woman w/o “pedestalizing” her and having my own needs met. It is about balance, owning your own needs(and not owning or presuming someone elses. Following a script in a relationship is broken whether it involves worshiping a woman or any other set of “rules.”

  23. #32 by Jennifer on August 22, 2011 - 3:45 PM

    I agree with the two ladies about SOME of the commandments.

    “Giving up feminism does not mean no voting for women, limited work opportunities for women or that all women should be shackled to a kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. I don’t advocate that at all.

    Original “feminist” ideas such as equal pay for equal work and women’s suffrage are not up for debate.

    What I mean is rejecting the current strain of feminism which has become misandrist. Rejecting feminism in daily life means a woman makes her choices, accepts its consequences and learns to live with them. No one can have it all. It means rejecting the idea that all men are pigs. It means being OK with pleasing your man. It means doing some things your man likes”

    Awesome.

    “We reject feminism in all its forms and permutations.
    We love and respect men for what they do for society, our communities, our families and our children.
    We admire men for the unique things they do for and bring to marriages and extended families.
    We’ll let you be men and not be feminized versions of yourselves.
    We offer our kind words, our fidelity, our commitment, and ourselves.
    When in an LTR or marriage with you, we’ll offer our honest opinions on how best to lead fulfilling, complete and satisfying lives together”

    Consider my name signed here.

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