For the backstory:
I Must Have Left An Impression On Her…
The Dating Ritual – This Is How It’s Supposed To Be (3/28 Update)
I’ve had two very good dates with Daphne. I called her yesterday evening with the intent just to talk a bit. Even though she had just gotten into bed, we had a nice chat. I sensed that she was qualifying herself to me. That’s always good.
She spoke of male friends and quickly back-peddled each time with a remark that one was gay and the other was a long-distance friend who visited occasionally and slept on her sofa. No worries, I have female friends with much the same arrangement. Daphne also spoke of issues with her elderly parents and I think that put a serious damper on her mood.
I invited her to visit me here for one of the two live music events which occur here every Friday and Saturday. She declined with reasoning that she had seen at least one event here and the other didn’t seem appealing to her. She didn’t give a specific reason and I didn’t ask for one. All in all, the conversation was rather tepid, unlike our previous conversations.
We left it with the onus on me finding something interesting to do for our next date. I understand that as the alpha male, this is my responsibility. Yet this left me feeling uncomfortable, as if she were giving me a shit test already. If these is indeed a shit test, I’d rather not deal with it at all. Suggestions, anyone?
Regardless, I will try to find some options for something enjoyable, quiet, and inexpensive. I’ve already shelled out for two dinners with her and I don’t want to end up just a meal ticket. Should Daphne not work out in the dating realm, at least I will have options for future dates with other women.
03/30/2011 1:10PM
Based on a great idea from a comment to this post, I sent the following email to Daphne:
Subject: I have an interesting idea for a date this weekend.
I have lived here for over seven years and I have yet to visit the famous [flea market name].
Let’s go there on Saturday or Sunday.
Her response a few minutes later:
Fine. How will we get there?
This is good. Her question about getting there has to do with the fact that I only have the motorcycle. She’s not mentioned the motorcycle, whether riding on it with me or not. Now it’s just a matter of logistics.
It’s important to note that I did not ask her if she wanted to go. In essence, I told her we’re going. It’s taken me years to learn to stop asking women and start taking the lead regarding dating and relationships. There is some background information on that, here.
[Editor's note - using her pseudonym so often in this blog is going to cause issues. When on an actual date, I'm afraid I will address her as "Daphne" and not her real name. That would be more than awkward.]
NMH
/ March 30, 2011I remember about 2 years ago I met a girl that I had a couple of dates with. For a third date, I suggested that we split the bill over the phone.
That is not terribly romantic, but if she is really interested in you she wont have a problem with it. With the girl I had two dates with she back pedaled after I made the suggestion, and for the third date she actually stood me up. Clear where she stood on the “who pays” issue.
In terms of paying, what I can handle is this: is the woman sincerely interested in splitting the bill when you are dating? Could she do this with out any ill feelings toward you? If this is the case, she is acceptable. With my current gf I pay far more than she does but she makes less money than I do and she would sincerely be Ok with her paying for half.
I suggest you hold this standard.
As for the next date, lets find out if she is thrifty: take her out garage saleing or to the flea market. Im serious–she deserves nothing more than this.
My dream girl is a girly-girl who likes to shop at goodwill. I guess that is analogous to a woman who wants a bad boy with boy scout qualities.
theprivateman
/ March 30, 2011This is an excellent idea. There are two very large, local flea markets which I have yet to visit. I will pitch the idea and see how she responds.
Analogous indeed.
duh
/ March 30, 2011What do you like to do? What do you do for fun on your own (driving range?, hiking?, rock climbing?, canoeing?, shooting guns?)
Take her there.
Action dates are a lot more fun.
theprivateman
/ March 30, 2011I’ve already pitched the flea market date in an email to her. If she balks, I’ll recommend the motorcycle ride.
CSPB
/ March 30, 2011Let me point something out. Do not put her in the role of approving what to do on the date.
Your life is your adventure. She can choose to come along or not. It is not your duty to entertain her and plan something that she wants to do. It works so well to say, “I am going to the flea market on Saturday, Join me. We can walk around since the weather will be nice and then go grab a bite to eat after.”
Women really do not want to make these decisions and it is important to get the dynamics right in the beginning. You do not want the dynamics to be you pleasing her but rather the opposite.
theprivateman
/ March 30, 2011Word.
It’s not easy to break old and bad habits.
CSPB
/ March 30, 2011Yeah, I had to learn it the hard way, but the good thing is that we can help each other with these lessons on blogs.
NMH
/ March 30, 2011That’s a great point. Im of the generation where I was brainwashed to allow the woman a chance at making the decision, but now I know better. I guess one of the things Ive learned is that a standard woman want you to have this fantastically exciting life and if they like you they will fit themselves into it. The more educated/attractive the woman, the more exciting it has to be. With this knowledge, it’s hard not for me to think of women as being weak and lazy creatures, at least compared to men. The concept that women are “stronger” than men is such bull crap.
Twenty
/ March 30, 2011In reference to NMH’s comment, and TPM’s original statement:
Meh … I don’t know about this. “It’s my responsibility to find something interesting to do” (when she’s already pooh-poohed your last idea) sounds a little too much like “dance, monkey-boy, dance!” for my taste. My advice would have been as “duh’s” … do what you’re going to do anyway, and say she should join you.
theprivateman
/ March 30, 2011I felt the same way as the “dance, monkey-boy, dance!” thing. This is why my shit test sense was on high alert.
As for the logistics of this weekend, Daphne was perfectly happy to let me pick her up at her place and then take her to the flea market on my motorcycle. The willingness to ride on the back of a motorcycle is a significant indicator of interest and attraction. Riding pillion for a woman is an almost intimate act, especially for motorcycles without a backrest, like mine.
NMH
/ March 30, 2011All these verbal subtleties needed to bang an entitled “5″. Maybe its time he said “Fuck this shit!”
theprivateman
/ March 30, 2011Now is the time for my own rationalization hamster to accelerate the wheel…
It’s good practice!
Also – and in all candor – I have not filled the pipeline from Plenty of Fish.
ZLX1
/ March 31, 2011I implemented the tell, don’t ask method for my first post divorce date. I did it this way this week with a lady my friends introduced me to and I had success:
“I’m going to do X on Saturday, you coming along?” She said yep without any fuss. If she had said no, then I would have dropped it, made some chit chat and got off the phone. Made it subtly sound like I didn’t give a hoot if she did or not come along (because I don’t) and that if she chose not to, she was the one that was going to be missing out on doing something with me. She agreed.
Hell, I figure if she was really interested in me she would agree to come over and help paint the bathroom if I asked [not my actual date plan, although maybe it should be, at least get my bathroom painted-hmmm], if she was not interested in me then none of my ideas would have been good enough. I was also thinking that if she turned down my idea and counter offered with something else, I would turn her down. Reason being that it would show me:
1. She is woman that likes to lead her man around. Not the woman for me.
2. Might be start of a bad pattern of all my ideas not “up to her standards”
I would have taken a counter offer of “I can’t get together Saturday how about Wednesday?” but not one of “I don’t want to do X, let’s go do Y instead…” That in itself might be a shit test. I dunno, I think it would feel like one.
Maybe I over thought all this and made it more complicated than it needed to be, but I like having a plan ahead of time so I don’t stumble around on the phone.
Anyway, it worked out good for me. Yay, I got a date.
ZLX1
/ March 31, 2011Edited to say: As long as she doesn’t flake out on me….